Denise 0:07
Myth, Magic, Medicine, and everything in between, 2 doctors talking
Hello, and welcome again to Myth, Magic, Medicine. My guest today comes all the way originally from Siberia -Oxana I'm so sorry, I can't pronounce your name properly. But I do know that you originally trained in Siberia worked for about a year and then traveled through Europe and wound up in the United States. Spend a little time in Rhode Island and then went took your residency in Hawaii, what a great place to do residency. So Please pronounce your name properly for our viewers and listeners. And and then tell me how did you find Hawaii after Siberia?
Oxana 0:52
Oh, thank you, Denise. Well, my name is Oxana Ormonova, this is the correct way to pronounce it. Yes, I had a long journey. I was actually born in a little region called Tuva, which probably 90% of our audience have not heard about it. It's mostly known for throat singers, so if, you know, it's a particular way of singing, and it's on the border with Mongolia. And I grew up in Siberia, and I did my medical school in Siberia. And, you know, since I was a child, I was very intuitive. And I could see things that other people could not perceive. And again, since I was a child, I was unconsciously healing everybody around me. So, and I was sick on my favorite holidays, like every year. I hardly remember celebrating my favorite holiday, which was New Year. And looking back, I realized that I was just healing everybody, right? So because holidays bring a lot of joy, but it also brings a sort of pain.
Denise 2:09
So you feel that that was depleting your own energies.
Oxana 2:13
Because I was so sensitive. I was absorbing other people's pain, other people's emotions. But I didn't know that. And so my mom was a physician. And I remember just making rounds with her since I was four years old. So I would make rounds this year in a hospital. And, and I just thought, oh my God, I want to help people, I want to heal people. And naturally for me, I went to medical school. So, and while I was in medical school, which again, you know, in Siberia, it was like in the United States, it's a very scientific base, right? But having those intuitive gifts, and being a healer, after med school, after my lectures, I will go in a little clinic, and do hands on healing on people. So which was totally you know, not what I was taught in med school.
Denise 3:18
Did you? Did you have any pushback? Or was that very much accepted in the community?
Oxana 3:24
You know, it wasn't back then. It wasn't that accepted You know, it wasn't that accepted. So I kind of kept it. You know,
Denise 3:33
You didn't want the Dean of Medicine hearing about it.
Oxana 3:37
No. But you know, what was happening? People were getting better. So I would just put my hands on, you know, whatever, for 10 minutes, the pain was going away, the chronic illnesses was getting better, and I would get home. And that was just going straight to bed because I was so exhausted. And again, back then I didn't realize I was taking on, again, all that pain and suffering. So
Denise 4:08
that's not good for your studies though if you're going to bed afterwards.
Oxana 4:12
I know. And including when I went to med school, med school in Siberia, in Siberia in the winter, and sometimes it was minus 40 Celsius,
Denise 4:25
And they are long winters in Siberia,
Oxana 4:25
Exactly. And it will take me at least two hours, sometimes three hours to get to med school one way and then three hours back. So you know, adding that anyway. So, and then I went again. Oh, another story. When I was in medical training a long, long time ago, I was doing one of the rotations in rheumatology. And I said oh my god just so exciting. It's outpatient. I don't have to be, you know, waking up five o'clock in the morning, it's going to be easy peasy.
Denise 5:12
Famous last words...
Oxana 5:14
Little did I know. So after a few days doing that, I just started feeling depressed. All, my joints were hurting and I said, Oh my god, I'm like in my 20s. Right? So what's wrong here?
Denise 5:34
So you were sort of a really good version of medical student hypochondriasis?
Oxana 5:42
No, no, no, no, it was not that. So what was happening? I was again, because, you know, remote in rheumatology we see chronic pain, right? Autoimmune diseases, a lot of depression. And so again, I was absorbing the oldest patient's pain, emotions, and I was not aware of it. So, and I talked to the attending I said, Oh, my God, you know, I feel awful. And she said, Oh, that's okay. I feel like that all the time. And she goes, Why don't you take start taking, like, just take half a dose of antidepressant and it will help you. But for me, I was going like, Oh, my God, if I start taking an antidepressant, now, what am I looking down the road? What's going to happen? 10 years, 20, 30,40 years. So and, you know, now, there is a term for that - being an empath, or being an empathic person, which means you're sensitive, you're sensitive to other people's energies, emotions, pain, and this is what I was. But back then it was not recognized clearly.
Denise 7:12
How did you protect yourself from that? Because you've practiced now for 30 years total from med school through now? What? How do you protect yourself because otherwise, you'd have been an exhausted blob by now.
Oxana 7:27
So, and it took me on a journey to really start looking into it right? and what's happening when I interact with a patient. And I tried different types of meditation, I, you know, I traveled to Nepal, I traveled to India, Bhutan, you know, and all over Europe. And so, I recognized, again, everything is energy, our emotions, and it is energy, our thoughts, the vibrations, it's all energy. And we all absorb in it. You know, we all kind of tune in into other people's emotions and so forth. So, as physicians, we deal with pain and suffering, and you know that, on a daily basis. So, and again, how many professions out there who do that? Yes, nurses and I, I have deep respect and appreciation for nurses. So and I don't know, have you ever calculated how many patients you've seen in your [career],
Denise 8:42
No, I probably should do that at some point. But I calculated once with another doctor, how much how much money we'd actually made in the time we've been in training, you know, once we hit residency through the first two years of attending, and I think it was $2 an hour. But I haven't calculated how many patients I saw. I used to see 60 Aa night when I worked night ER oh, yeah. single coverage. Yeah.
Oxana 9:11
I agree with you, you know, making $2 an hour, I probably will be the same. But, you know, when I spoke about and I start calculating, you know, just Okay, how many patients did I see, you know, during my shifts, how many years med school residency, and I calculated, at least it was more than 30,000, treated more than 30,000 patients. And so, and it just for us to recognize it because most physicians, they don't even think about it, it just become a norm. So you go and you see your 20-25 patients. And it's, it's normal, it's expected. But if we really dive deep and realize, oh my god, again, 50,000 patients, so 20,000 - 100,000 patients over the span of our medical career, who are in survival, fear, pain,
Denise 10:05
yes. And also, of course, a lot of people, I think a lot of people are more empathic than they realize. But it is one of those, of course you've got to go and see somebody who's dying and deal with the energy of the people that are surrounding them, their family members are also in pain watching this happen, or whatever the illness is. And then you may have to go and talk to somebody with an ingrown toenail. And then you've got to go back out, because there's somebody, you know, this, it's, there is very little recovery time between episodes. And I think that is what's so exhausting. Which is why so lovely to have private practice, hypnosis practice, I have big buffers in between clients, I don't see seven people a day, I see one person, and then I have a big break, and I have another person, which makes the recovery much faster. Because truly, if I saw five people a day, I wouldn't be exhausted. Some of that is my advanced age. But, but But you know, energy, and energy work of any kind is draining. But when you even even happiness can be draining, it's, it can be energizing, too. But but if you're dealing with particularly ill people, do you do hospice work, or what kind of clients, patients do you see, usually, these days.
Oxana 11:21
Well, when I was working as a hospitalist, I mean, it's was ranging from, again, people, I had to, you know, transition people to hospice, and take care of them. If we were, you know, imminently dying while we were in the hospital. And like you said, it's yes, you see somebody who is dying, or you go, you're pronounced patient that you talk to the family, right? When there's so much grief, so much pain. And then, if I have 20 patients to see 25 patients to see, I have to go to see next patient, and I have to put smile on my face. Because I am going and I have to cheer this patient up. Right. So and it's day after day. So a lot of I think, patients, they don't realize, I think we don't give enough how far it is.
Denise 12:23
But but also in fairness to the patient. When you're the pet you they you become very, not really selfish. I mean, they're just, they don't realize there's 25 other people in an emergency room or a floor of a hospital, it's just they see that. When my mother was dying, she was in hospice, when she died and this is in the UK. My father, and my sisters and I were sitting around the bedside waiting, and basically keeping her company. And the nurses were every so often come out because she was, you know, obviously DNR, she's in hospice, we were expecting her to die. I didn't realize until a couple of days later, when the obituaries came out and they stated of where everybody had died, how many other people those nurses were dealing with, with the same amount of pain going on with the same at the same time. I was I was completely oblivious, partly because the nurses, that was a nice big area. So the nurses were over this side. And over this side, we have one that was dedicated for us. But it was also because we had tunnel vision is understandable because they've got to use their energy to deal with their grief. But it does mean that they don't realize that or they say strange things to you. Like I suppose it doesn't really affect you does it dear, while you go into the what we used to call the sliuce, you go into the back room and cry your eyes out, particularly if it was a child children terribly, terribly difficult.
Oxana 13:46
Yes. And I remember, you know, I'm in my med school, my residency, and when I you know, working as a hospitalist I meant how many times I cried when you know, somebody died. And I just because it's always it's like, Okay, what if right? And what if, you know, something could be done differently? What if this patient came earlier showed up early in ER.
Denise 14:13
What if I was psychic? And I realized they should have come in earlier from the waiting room? And yeah, that's
Oxana 14:19
and you know, I am an intuitive I was intuitive through, you know, years of my work. But it's, again, it's interesting, you know, how our health system is built in United States where patients give so much responsibility for their well-being and health to the physician. And I mean, I literally heard that we would come in and we say, Okay, you're the doctor, you fix it, fix it, right. So and we didn't take responsibility for their diet for the, you know, healthy habits. So it was okay, you fix it. And, and as physicians, again, especially when we are true healers, because I believe majority of us going to medical school because we want to help people, you want to heal people. So, and then we, again, we just put all our energy that our hearts and souls and trying to help people trying to help them to get better. So, and hopefully, you know, the system is going to change. And I already see it's changing. So, so anyway, my passion is really helping physicians, especially those who are sensitive, who let's say they call themselves empathic physician, empath.
Denise 15:49
Those are the people who realize those are the people who realize what's happening. How many people are being impacted to don't realize that's why they feel so awful.
Oxana 15:59
Exactly. And what's so great, we having this conversation, where people can go, Oh, my God, this is me. This has been happening to me too. But especially when I was in training, nobody was talking about it. And it was almost also the training, you were supposed to feel your patient's pain in order to understand I don't know how it was in your training in order to understand what somebody is going through. I mean, thanks, God, even don't do it anymore. I don't know, 500 years ago, when you had to taste your patients you're in to determine,
Denise 16:36
yes, thankfully, we have labs now.
Oxana 16:39
What's going on as a patient? But yes, so. And a lot of physicians out there, were not realizing like you just said, we're picking up the patient's thoughts, pains, problems, because it's all energy. And what's happening when they do that, right day in and day out, you know, every day. So because it's not the energy by can't process it. So just based on your energy field, and then it starts manifesting as sometimes physical condition, sometimes again, it's emotions, it starts affecting their personal life. So and they don't realize it.
Denise 17:26
So, let's suppose I am, I am let's pretend I was practicing still. and I came in and said, admittedly at my age, you's say well then retire. That's suppose I came to you and said, I just don't enjoy medicine anymore. I just want to go home and cry every day. What would be the first thing you would suggest to me that I do other than retiring? We can't all leave, right? We do need doctors, we do need some people to stay in the game. So what would you think would be the first thing to do other than taking a deep breath and giving yourself a forest bathing experience or something to try and clear some of that energy out?
Oxana 18:06
This is great question, then it's again, so I do intuitive healing, intuitive healing session, intuitive coaching, with my clients. So I really look intuitively to see what's going on this person. Right? So are they absorbing somebody's energies? Right? Is it we're absorbing what's going on in the world? So I really look what's underneath that because it could be different things. And then I guide them through the healing process. How to, first of all, how, number one, it's awareness. When you're aware of something, you become, you know, the light bulb goes on. And you go, Oh, okay, this is what's happening. What do I do about it? Like what you were saying before, and because most of the physicians we're not even aware of it. And so then I, again, work with them, teaching them tools, how to maintain your energy, how to maintain your energetic boundaries, so it doesn't, so it's not keep happening. So then, you know, I teach intuition and other workshops. And when people also realize that awareness is power, then again, that person is not going to beat yourself up. Because oh my god, after seven days of 12 hour shifts on my day off, I can't get to my you know, load of laundry. Yeah. So you start validating yourself, you start going like Okay, I am not able to do that because I just saw,I don't know, 200 patients, whatever the number is, so and then you start putting your well being first, you start putting your well being priority and developing system that supports you. So whatever it is asking, you know, having hired help, spending time in nature, cutting hours at work. So you start setting boundaries on different levels. And it's not. And sometimes when people come to me and they say, okay, teach me how to protect my energy, how to protect myself. And my first response is, it's not about protecting yourself, we are not trying to build walls, right. So between ourselves and the world, or ourselves in the patients. Because again, being an empath, being sensitive, it's also where it's your intuition comes force, right? It's where you connect it with the world, but it's learning how to use it for your advantage. Learning how to harness that power of you being sensitive, you've been intuitive. So yes.
Denise 21:12
And using it for your patients. How How, how, then, would somebody who has, you know, got hired help, so they don't have to worry about the laundry, they've got their situation's cool, everything's fine, their marriage is intact. They've managed to, to protect the their life as well as their professional life. If they wanted to enhance their sense of intuition or empathy? How would you? Do you help people to grow that side of the of their experience?
Oxana 21:47
Yes, absolutely. And as you were just saying, so, oh, I was going to finish, you know, so we're not building walls. But we're learning how to be neutrality. How to be in compassion, right? So instead of going into sympathy, where we kind of go down the rabbit hole with a patient. So we have to be step it's like, physicians feel like lighthouses, right? So we have to help the patient to step up, bring their vibration up, so that we can heal. And so, and I forgot what the question was
Denise 22:28
Just pointing this out, while you're saying this, in case are any non-physicians working? You're not suggesting that you wouldn't send them to a cardiac cath lab? You're talking about doing that along with standard medicine, because we want to practice integrative medicine want wholeness and wellness for people? Right.
Oxana 22:45
Exactly. As long as we're on the same page? Oh, absolutely. You know, and again, I went through the whole journey. Did you know I did medical training for 10 years? Actually, yeah, 10 years. You know, it's working as a hospitalist, which is again, very science based, you know, medicine. And then when I, through my spiritual journey, I found myself between two worlds, So one was spiritual people spirituality, and other one was physicians, and my spiritual community, were poopooing physicians, and they were going, like, oh, doctors, they just want to make money, right? They're doing all these tests, they are giving people all these medications. And then of course, physicians, were going, Oh, this is just all woowoo stuff, right about the spiritual people.
Denise 23:40
This is something in my religion, we're told that religion without science is superstition. And science without religion is an abomination. You have to have those two things. Right. And when I say religion, I don't I don't necessarily mean organized religion. I mean, you have to have a spiritual basis to listen to the soul, the essence of the person, as well as just the mechanics or the body. OK, preaching over.
Oxana 24:09
So I found myself in between those worlds, and because it's almost like I felt I don't belong in this world, fully. I don't belong in that world. And so I realized, okay, my mission, I'm bringing it together, like having both of it. So where, yes, in my sessions, I've worked with people to help them to heal on a soul level to bring everything to wholeness. And then yes, okay, you you have to have this procedure. Like I said, Go for cardiaccath, or, bypass surgery, whatever it is, so having both so it doesn't have to be either or and it's so I'm so delighted now to see more and more physicians who were becoming more open to spirituality becoming more awake and aware. So I see, especially in the last couple of years, it's changing tremendously.
Denise 25:09
So it's why, there's a reason, for the title for the podcast Myth, Magic Medicine, because originally, the original doctors were shamans and wise women that said, so and then we became at the Renaissance, we have science. But we don't want to lose that, that natural human connection.
Oxana 25:31
Yes, because this is, again, this is the key, right? Especially in this world right now. It's so important. So where you're not trying to isolate yourself, you're not trying to build walls.
Denise 25:47
How how do you? I had a few people when I when I was ill, I had very sweet Chaplin come in to talk to because I just needed somebody to talk to us for a human connection. My family couldn't get in becasue there was a big snowstorm. And she was terribly sweet. She asked me if she could pray for me. Absolutely, please. And she she probably did maybe Ron, remember Chevy Chase. And that story, there were all these things like, like demon begone thing. She misread her audience. It was fine. I realized she wasn't trying to be insulting, right? That would that wasn't the way I react. How do you when you don't know somebody's background, when you don't know how they're going to receive the information? How do you modify how you interact with them? Whilst you're still using that intuition? This is great. And can you explain that, because a lot of it, of course, is happening in the background, and you don't really necessarily think consciously when you're doing it, but please explain.
Oxana 26:48
Your question then is, well, you know, when I work with clients, so when they say their name, right, so when I do it remotely, so all my work, I do remotely as a zoom call. So when they tell me their name, I can see what's going on with them. Right? So I can see what's energies affecting them, I can see the soul path. I can see what's going on again, in say, a life. You know, so I see, I see the big picture. And I see, really, the big picture is that what they might not be aware, right? What's going on with them. So when my thing it's like, okay, this is what's going on. But when I look at the truth, it's like, oh, okay, no, this is let's take a step back. This is what's going on. And so I always look at the, in terms of what we're able to have, right what what communication variable to have. So it's where they are in the spiritual journey, their awareness. So then I tailor my communication and my intuitive healing work to where they're at. So I need them where they're at. So, and this is where, again, intuition, and being able to have what's called clairvoyance. So I'm able to see, so what's, what's going on? Yes. It's a great, you know, and about intuition. I teach, again, physicians how to develop intuition. And I had so many physicians come to me, and they say, oh, no, I am not intuitive. I don't have that. I don't have what you have. And recognize it within themselves. But exactly. And they say, No, you just not recognizing we all have. So it just paying attention to it. Or it's developing, it's nurturing. It's validating, because and you probably can relate through your years of practicing. How many times and again with physicians I've worked with, when I asked them like, oh, remember, you made this decision? Where did it come from? Yeah. And
Denise 29:04
Sometimes you walk into a room noonish Gestalt feeling about what's going on, rather than? Oh, this symptom here, the symptom? You said something interesting, and this is a little bit of a tangent, maybe you said when I know their name is not necessarily the name, it's on their birth certificate, or, or is it the name they call themself? Is there anything particular about that, or the name they use as a child rather than their adult official doctor? SO and SO? Can you talk to that a little bit?
Oxana 29:37
Yes, absolutely. Well, so when people call me I usually ask them for their regional birth names or full birth name and then I asked them for the name we're using currently, right. So my change their name or they got married. So because the vibration sometimes shifts, so I ask both. I get information from the totality. So So yes. And again, I'm looking at the where they are at, right who there is a soul. And what I believe is all illnesses originate on a soul level. So it's when something on a soul level, there is some disconnect, or maybe some trauma, whatever it is, so when it starts showing up in the physical in the physical body, it's like your loss loss loss. Right?
Denise 30:28
And I would agree, I agree with you, except it also matches what you're eating. How much sleep you're getting, all of these things have to work together. Yeah,
Oxana 30:39
Absolutely. And so that's by again, addressing it on so many multitudes of level, right. So like you said, health diet, your sleep pattern, your thoughts, and looking okay, what's going on, with your emotions with was going on with you as a soul. And so it's bringing everything to wholeness. So, this is what I see. The true healing is it's bringing to home wonderful,
Denise 31:06
I'm so glad you agreed to come on, talk to me. really intrigued for years since we first met. Thank you so much, it was very, very kind to me. I do want to make sure that people check out the show notes because there will be information on how to reach Oxana, and learn more from her perhaps you want to develop your own intuition. Or maybe you want to heal some of your own pain. So thank you very much indeed. Thank you.
Thank you for joining us at Myth, Magic, Medicine. If you have found this episode useful, you can apply for free CME credits for the link provided in the transcript. If you're not a medical professional, please remember, while we're physicians, we're not your physicians, so please consult with your own health care professional if you think something you have heard might apply to you or a loved one. Until next time, bye bye
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