Denise Billen-Mejia 0:07
Welcome to Two hypnotherapists talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia in Delaware, USA.
Martin Furber 0:13
And me Martin Furber in Preston UK.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:16
This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who would like to know more about fascinating subject of hypnosis, and the benefits that it offers.
Martin Furber 0:24
I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and psychotherapist,
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:27
I'm a retired medical doctor turned consulting hypnotist.
Martin Furber 0:31
We are two hypnotherapiststalking.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:34
So let's get on with the episode.
Martin Furber 0:36
So, Denise, hello.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:39
Can you believe it's the end of the year already?
Martin Furber 0:44
I know, and the end of season one,
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:47
This is true.
Martin Furber 0:49
I don't know where the weeks have gone.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:52
It's this whole year has flown by for me, it's been a blur, which is good. It's also the reason that we're going to have a little break now at the end of the year to catch our breath; look at what we've done and what what we're going to be doing next year. Amongst those things, of course, is this podcast. And we've decided, have we not, that it's gonna be three seasons of twelve epidoes?
Martin Furber 1:15
Three seasons a year. So that's two more than dynasty ever had! Yeah, three seasons a year. So, well, this is the end of season one. We've got Season Two starting on Sunday, the eighth of January.
Denise Billen-Mejia 1:31
And that will be here before we know it.
Martin Furber 1:32
Yeah, I know. With, well, every everything is mad busy everywhere at the moment. Even in works parties, people that don't celebrate Christmas, maybe some of them go to the Christmas party anyway to join in the festivities, whatever, but it's a busy time of the year for everybody. Even if Christmas isn't your thing. You can't help or get caught up in the Christmas crowds and traffic and parking and everything else. Yeah, so let's not stress our people out there any more than they already are...
Denise Billen-Mejia 2:02
Are suggesting that we stress them?
Martin Furber 2:03
No, not at all. And if we do we can help with that.
Denise Billen-Mejia 2:08
Make your own business.
Martin Furber 2:09
Okay, well, we can't give too much away about what's going on in the new year. I've got one or two things in the pipeline. Hopefully, hopefully, my book will be out before the end of this year. I'm still frantically trying to get that finished. And then one or two new things happening in January as well, because I'm actually working as well as my practice in Preston and the clinic I work at in Blackburn, I'm going to be working at another private therapy clinic that has a team of nine consultant psychiatrists.
Denise Billen-Mejia 2:40
That's really nice. Yeah, it's a great fit.
Martin Furber 2:44
It's great to think the consultant psychiatrists are deeming hypnotherapy as, you know, a viable treatment option. As in the truest sense of the word is what it is a complementary therapy to complement what they do.
Denise Billen-Mejia 2:58
Yeah, absolutely, it's very exciting. So and of course, that leads into what my big project for next year, which is the launch of my 'what is hypnosis' course for medical physicians? Yeah, of course, medical physicians a bit redundant for physicians, allopathic osteopath. And that will be probably late February I haven't got the dates actually correct yet but we both need a little bit of a breather to make sure all the other little fires are burning nicely.
Martin Furber 3:30
So we will be raring to go in the new year. So if you're listening to us now or watching us now and you've watched any of the other episodes this series Thank you. Thank you so much. It's been great having you on board with us. Well that's it for this one I'm going to pin a few different I'm not going to call them highlights because that you know I don't want to pick and choose between guests or anything like that. I'm just going to pick some bits at random from different episodes and tag them on to the end of this one. So you know if you haven't watched any of the other ones or you've just watched a few of them have a watch to the end of this recording today. And then let's hope you enjoy some of the bits there as I say I'm I'm not calling them highlights because every episode has been a highlight as far as I'm concerned we've covered a lot of things haven't we?
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:13
Yes, we have. yes, and of course people are we're very happy to have people write in and ask us to talk about particular things.
Martin Furber 4:21
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, in the in the show notes if you're listening on a podcast then whatever, whatever platform you listen to it on there's a space there with show notes in our contact details are on there on YouTube, the straight below in the comments box you can contact either of us by email. We always love to hear from you. But we will be back on January the eighth
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:46
Yeah, thank you. Merry Christmas to those who celebrate Happy Hanukkah to those who celebrate that
Martin Furber 4:51
Yeah, and happy holidays to everybody else, as they say over there in America.
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:57
And good luck with the traffic
Okay, I'll catch you in the new year.
See you soon. Bye.
Martin Furber 5:04
Episode two saw Denise and I talking with Jason Langley, 'The Teen Anxiety Coach'.
Denise Billen-Mejia 5:11
What is the main message you would like the general public to know about hypnosis and the kind of work that you do other than you too can enjoy steak if you want to.
Jason Langley 5:27
I'm just, it's probably the same as probably you two feel as well, that you know, hypnotherapy isn't that woo-woo kind of therapy. You know, it's, you know, I was trained by CPHT. And their, their approach, and, you know, their knowledge is all based on neuroscience. You know, so when a client comes to me, you know, I can back everything I say up with with neuroscience, not that many people out there that can kind of say that. So like I say, for me, it's just I love hypnotherapy. I really do. I talk about it all the time. No, we're just trying to break down those those barriers of someone's standing there with a watch. Yeah. Look into my eyes.
Denise Billen-Mejia 6:23
I mean, focal points are fine. It's just unfortunate people are fixated on the lovely Victorian pocket watch as the desired focal point.
Martin Furber 6:30
So, Jason, for the benefit of people who don't know anything about the type of hypnotherapy you do. Could you sort of give a brief description of how a hypnotherapy session would be, after the initial consultation? What would they expect to find each week when they come to see you?
Unknown Speaker 6:45
Yeah, so after initial consultation, it's very set with what obviously we do, we can change obviously, certain things depending on obviously, what the client says it's, it's not so kind of like a one size fits all, it's, it's there to be adapted to the client that's in front of you and their needs. So, you know, the first thing obviously, we do is make them feel comfortable and happy in themselves, you know, so we read them, you know, with nice positive actions and words, to help them get in their intellectual mind, to help them start to produce that serotonin and start making me feel happy. And then we start talking about what's been good over the last week. So they do have a little bit of homework where they have to write their diary down. Three things that have made them smile or be happy during the week. So that's quite nice. We then talk about a bit of brain revision. So if they say anything to me that I think that, do you know what, I want to tell them a bit more about that. To help them understand why they're thinking that or you know, how they can change that part of their thinking as well. We then go on to the happiness scale. So how happy they are as they sit there in the chair. All of our hypnotherapy, we don't ask them anything about their past. We're great believers that we've lived the past we survived the past.
Denise Billen-Mejia 8:13
First, for people who who aren't, who are listening who aren't hypnotists, this is your particular, not YOUR particular, but the way you were trained at the school of hypnotherapy that you follow. You don't do any regression work, you don't do memory work. Now that's interesting with trauma. So, I've realised I'm stopping your flow there for a bit. If you're talking about PTSD, most people have heard that EMDR is very useful for PTSD, which also does not require you to relive the trauma, but your brain is processing the trauma. You are, you are not quite thinking about it. While it's working in your brain. How do you... How would your form of hypnotherapy therapy work with PTSD?
Jason Langley 8:56
So yeah, that's a great question. So we've that. Obviously, you know, we do obviously, a rewind and reframe technique, but we've, you know, depending on what their PTSD is, the trauma is, you know, we wouldn't visit revisit that. So, let's just take someone that is, has trauma from the army or has lived, obviously quite a traumatic times, you know, in in Iraq or wherever in the world been, you know, they may have an issue going to fill their car up with petrol because the smell of petrol obviously brings back that trauma. Someone came to me with that sort of trauma, I wouldn't then go and relive their past. What I would do is try and reframe them going to the petrol station and making it more of a positive experience for them. Going to the petrol station. So they're not going there with the anxiety already building, up going there. And then obviously, maybe having flashbacks, panic attacks when they're trying to fill their car up, you know?
Are you able? Are you able to change the response to that trigger of the smell of petrol?
Yes, yeah. Because, all we do is ask them how they would want their perfect situation that, with going to the petrol station is. So you know, when they go into the relaxed state, we then go over that image, again, that memory again, obviously, we know that the brain can't tell the difference between imagination and reality. So then...
Denise Billen-Mejia 10:51
Just to clarify the memory, you're talking about going to the petrol station, not what was going on in Iraq?
Jason Langley 10:57
Yeah. So that they would be living that that memory of going to the petrol station, and not having a panic attack, not having anxiety. Having a great experience for them going to the petrol station. And then I say when they're in trance, a relaxed state, they, they will then be thinking about that image all the time. So it's embedded in their mind. So when, when we actually when they actually go back to the petrol station, the minds cannot go... Right, this is a dangerous situation; because it's in that perfect happy image for them. It overwrites that image, and then they then go and have a great experience and don't relive
Denise Billen-Mejia 11:42
I'm very amused by a great experience at a petrol station.
Martin Furber 11:45
In episode four of two hypnotherapist talking, we spoke with Dr. Sue Peacock,
Denise Billen-Mejia 11:51
In a typical, not that there's that many typical patients but somebody who has been sent to you or somehow wound up at your door, now they are no longer within the NHS. But presumably somebody said, I know this psychologist, she'll probably be able to help you with your pain, what would be the first thing you would offer them? Obviously, you have an intake, which is probably longer than the 20 minutes that Martin and I do to make sure that...
Dr Sue Peacock 12:18
I guess my first session is probably, well they're all roughly an hour. I guess the first session like you say is the intake, finding out about the pain, what's it like how long they've had it, what medications they're on? Who else are they seeing all that kind of stuff? Whats the, what's the biggest impact on their life? What areas of life? Is it affecting? And then my last question tends to be...
Denise Billen-Mejia 12:44
Excuse me? Is there a lot of secondary agenda stuff?
Dr Sue Peacock 12:50
I would say no, I think that's... Thinking about the time in the pain clinic, there's probably only about two people I ever thought that about and it was quite funny is that the consultant I used to work with the issuesm was an anaethetist, and yeah, she's retired now bless her, but she was great. And we had this lady outside our room once and, pain clinics, all NHS clinics run late, don't they? And this was notoriously always running late in our clinics because we spend time talking and listening. And everyone who kind of was a regular kind of knew that. So it was fine. They didn't mind too much. But there was this one lady who was a new lady once and she was getting really upset and the nurse kept coming in, we've got hurry up because his lady she's in tears, she' in tears, so we kind of juggled things and got her in sooner. And, you know, she was she seemed reasonably genuine like, you know, as best as you can. And my colleague thought the same. And then as soon as we had finished, we looked out the window and saw her literally sprinting up the hill running for a bus.
Denise Billen-Mejia 13:55
That wouldn't be what I would refer to as secondary agenda, more sort of fraud. And on the other hand, maybe your session was so fabulous, she feels so much better. Yeah, I was thinking more that people do the agendas that people don't realise they have. Or, they don't realise that they gain a lot of other sympathy I mean, it runs out, but there is...
Dr Sue Peacock 14:21
I think the...
Denise Billen-Mejia 14:22
It stops the kids moving to Australia because Mum's sick that kind of thing.
Dr Sue Peacock 14:27
A few of those. But to be fair, I don't know that I've seen many of them. I think because of the nature of, particularly of pain clinics in the UK, because it takes absolutely ages to even get there, I think on and all the sympathies been left behind years ago. So I I don't very often see, even even in my practice now, but I guess it's because of the people that refer to me, I don't see people who have had pain for like a year or so, very often. It's a pain for 7, 8, 9, 10, 20 years.
Denise Billen-Mejia 15:03
Now, do you feel that that's a failing of the system? Do you think we would? It would be better if we could interrupt that cycle a little earlier?
Dr Sue Peacock 15:12
Absolutely. Yes. Which is one of the good things about we're starting to develop over here is they are having pain services in primary care. That's, that's a good, good thing if they're run properly and multidisciplinary, I think, that would be good. I think that's starting to happen now. So I think that is one positive thing that's changing.
Martin Furber 15:36
Episode six of two hypnotherapist talking saw us chatting with Carrie Ann Apap from Arizona, in the USA.
Carrie Ann Apap 15:46
I think it's really good to get aligned with, you know, physicians that are see the value of hypnosis. Of course, a lot of physicians see the value of it with smoking.
Denise Billen-Mejia 16:02
Carrie Ann Apap 16:03
So, you know, smoking or weight loss or that type of thing. So, in those cases, what I do to build that relationship with the physician, is I asked for permission to send a letter to them, and let them know that I'm working with their patient, especially if they, they've recommended it's not a big deal. So thank you very much for the recommendation, but you just, you know, this is what we're going to do. And so, you know, then they see, oh, wow, this has been helpful, it's been successful. And then we'll recommend,
Denise Billen-Mejia 16:47
Do you do a lot of weight loss?
Carrie Ann Apap 16:49
I used to, I'm not doing so much weight loss anymore. I don't know why. I mean, I do it. I used to advertise big-time for weight loss. And, of course, that brought a lot of, a lot of clients in for that. I had a lot of success with it. But I just, I don't do it as much. I do it. You know, people call me to do work with weight loss, and we do it. That being said, I probably do more smoking. I probably see people for smoking, vaping is another thing. Yeah, you have a lot of vaping going on now,
Denise Billen-Mejia 17:38
Do you see many younger people. I mean, like adolescent vaping. That kind of thing?
Carrie Ann Apap 17:45
I'm not, no, they haven't. They're still invincible you know! It's like, you know, I'm gonna conquer the world, or whatever. So I do I see young people whose parents I've maybe worked with in networking groups with, and they're having problems with socialisation, or you know, things like that.
Denise Billen-Mejia 18:15
Carrie Ann Apap 18:17
Denise Billen-Mejia 18:19
Leaving home for the first time.
Carrie Ann Apap 18:21
Those are the kinds of things that you know, I work with, with young people and of course, athletes, I do work with athletes.
Denise Billen-Mejia 18:32
Did you? Do you work with the aches and pains of it? Or do you work with performance enhancement? That sounds like steroids, but that's not what I meant!
Carrie Ann Apap 18:41
I work mostly with performance enhancement. Now, what sometimes comes with that if someone has had a severe injury, they, you know, they're playing football and they have a really bad injury, maybe an ankle injury or something. And they have to be in a wheelchair for a couple of months. And you know, and now it's a year later, you know, want to play football, but they have a lot of anxiety about going yeah.
Denise Billen-Mejia 19:12
Carrie Ann Apap 19:14
So injury types of things. Yeah, I do as well.
Denise Billen-Mejia 19:20
It helps helps that your husband's a coach.
Carrie Ann Apap 19:24
Yeah. Well, that kind of introduced me to that area because like I say I created the masterful athletes programme for his ballplayers and his teens. And when I came here a friend of mine's husband was the head wrestling coach and he was using visualisation and different things like that with his thrusters. And so he approached me he said, I wanted I want to create a programme. And so we did that together. So our programme was used on it, you own it.
Martin Furber 20:04
In episode eight of two hypnotherapists talking we spoke with Angela Farlam, Down-Under in Australia.
When we were talking recently, Denise and I about the connection with NLP and hypnosis and NLP is, you know, we say. You know, it is a form of hypnosis repackaged as it were.
Angela Farlam 20:23
Martin Furber 20:24
Well, you practice both. You've got qualifications in both, what, what do you feel the similarities are in techniques.
Angela Farlam 20:31
Okay, so that, with the NLP It's the reason it got connected with hypnosis was because, it's really NLP was all about modelling excellence. And so the guys at the beginning of the journey in the 70s, Richard Bandler, and John Grinder, who I trained with in Australia, were studying excellence, people who were really good at what they were doing to replicate it. And they happened to study of famous hypnotist at the time, which was Milton Erickson, and Milton Erickson himself didn't even understand how he was getting these results, but they were modelling him and this is where the language, the Milton language came out, the vague language that we use in hypnosis, to guide people into trance. And then the metamodel is the it's the teasing out through listening to what people are saying, so you can you can get that that structure of how they're thinking. So it really helps with the, the journey and guiding somebody into trance as well. And understanding what they're doing on the inside.
Martin Furber 21:33
I was thinking particularly of some NLP techniques, sort of like the rewind or the swish method and that kind of thing.
Angela Farlam 21:42
All of that. Yeah.
Martin Furber 21:44
Because even in solution focused hypnotherapy, we use some NLP techniques. You know, there's little techniques borrowed from everywhere. Again, we were just talking about that the other day, weren't we Denise, about repackaging things. Solution focused hypnotherapy, which I practice is more or less the same as the part of your business where you do coaching, it's, it's a similar kind of thing. It's all about keeping your eye on the desired result and helping the client use their own resources to get there.
Denise Billen-Mejia 22:13
Angela Farlam 22:13
And that's, that's, that's what I that's how I work. It's like, this is where you are, what do you want? So it's like that. Whereas, you know, we can in NLP do regression go back in time to collect insights and lessons and learnings. And, you know, it's like, but it's, it's really solution focused. It's like, yeah, yeah,
Denise Billen-Mejia 22:37
You can go back there to find out what it was you need, that you need to know, you don't need to spend a lot of time there. That's the point is, is where are you now? And where are you going in the future because none of us really can go back, we can go take a peek and come back again.
Martin Furber 22:55
In Episode 10, we were chatting with Samantha Chater in the UK.
Denise Billen-Mejia 23:01
When people ask me for, you know, what's the difference between these three things, I tend to say that hypnosis is to kind of clear out some of the clutter, the things you need to deal with. And then meditation and mindfulness is what you go to, for maintenance. Now, it's nice to have, I love having an extra hypnosis session here and there, it's so wonderful, but it's more of a treatment for whatever is bothering you. Whereas meditation and mindfulness is just is part of your practice,
Samantha Chater 23:31
it's a way of life is what it is, it's, it's being consistent with, like, you know, you've got formal practices, and you've got informal practices. So, formal would be like, you know, maybe go in and do a body scan lying down for 30 minutes or 10 minutes, or whatever your time duration. And that's the thing you do formally. Informally, would be like, maybe, you know, brushing your teeth and just being aware of... or making a cup of tea and just being aware of, or using your senses to...
Denise Billen-Mejia 24:01
Eating, mindful eating.
Samantha Chater 24:04
Mindful eating, exactly.
Martin Furber 24:07
How, how far to go with mindful eating to the point of, if you, if you're eating a piece of fish, for example, we start to think about the people who fished it and...
Samantha Chater 24:19
Well you can do to that,
Denise Billen-Mejia 24:21
You could, but you might have to think about it being clumped on the head. I'm plant based so I don't have to think about the death of my food, but but it really is about really enjoying every bite, slowing down and appreciating what that sensation is.
Samantha Chater 24:39
It's not it's not just enjoying though, because not everything, you don't have to be judgemental with or like, it could be that where...Oh yeah, that's that sensation is different. You know, but it gives you kind of the laser focus into it to actually see what the nuances and the.. Do you know what I mean the real...Well, you wouldn't notice because we're rushing. And I'm guilty of this. This is one of my big areas I've worked really hard on myself and I still find myself it's this work in progress for me, I'll tell you.
Denise Billen-Mejia 25:11
We all are!
Samantha Chater 25:11
Yeah, a kind of yum, yum, yum, get it down as fast as you can. And you eat past your.. Listening to our bodies, we go past it, you know, so it's about, you know, getting yourself plonked down on that table rather than eating on your knee. Because I found you know, your phone and stuff. If it's there near me, you just go on automatic. And then I'm eating and I'm like, realise that I've moved the phone away into another room whilst I'm eating. And that's the only thing I'm doing. Everything else can wait.
Martin Furber 25:47
Episode 12 of two hidden therapists talking saw Denise and I chatting with Nova Lewis in the UK.
Nova Lewis 25:57
At the end of this, when we do come out of this, with Covid, with now this cost of living crisis, what next? You know, it's like the mental health crisis in the UK is bad enough as it is, you know, the waiting lists on NHS service, six months to a year just to get an appointment. Yeah. So how bad is it going to get? And we know that NHS is...
Denise Billen-Mejia 26:23
And the effect on children and their mental health?
Nova Lewis 26:26
Exactly. And we know that a lot of mental health does start in childhood.
Denise Billen-Mejia 26:32
Martin Furber 26:33
Nova, can I ask how old are your children?
Nova Lewis 26:36
So I have an 11 year old and an eight year old.
Martin Furber 26:39
Okay, so they've both spent approximately 20% of their lives in lockdown. With those ages, I mean, a year seems to last forever. You know, you remember waiting from between your 10th to your 11th birthday, it lasts forever. So yeah, they have been through two years of lockdown. And then as you say, now, you know, we're into this cost of living crisis. I mean, you're a Mum with young children. How have prices affected you? Because I know even you know, a this end of the country. And it's just two in our house to feed. I'm noticing it when we're in the supermarket. I you know, I'm spending 30% more than I was a year ago to get the same things. So some people are getting the same things and spending 30% more. Other people are only able to get 30% less.
Nova Lewis 27:31
Yeah, I mean, we've we've now we've had to set a budget on how much we can spend a day on food. It's as simple as that. Because obviously, you know, heating's gone up, food has gone up so much. Something has to give. So there's you know, we have to have that budget on what we can spend. And if we overspend then it's, well, the children they're not going to get those... and we can't get what we like.
Denise Billen-Mejia 28:04
Right and there's those other things, like kids who managed to wear the same pair of shoes for four or five months and then suddenly they go up a whole size overnight and it's all Yes, you've got to buy shoes, And aren't you gonna eat in order to have money for that? Yeah,
Nova Lewis 28:22
Yeah, I know. I mean, and it's, it really is hard. It is very difficult. I mean, lockdown for us. actually wasn't that bad because I've got two children with special needs. So for them not being at school, they quite enjoyed not being at school.
Martin Furber 28:39
How did it affect you though? homeschooling?
Nova Lewis 28:42
It was hard! Yeah, they were pretty... They were refusing to, to do it to do homeschooling. And they found that very difficult. It was actually getting them back to school. Because they struggle with change. Getting them back to school. That was that's the hard part. And that is still a struggle now. Actually being at school since the lockdown.
Denise Billen-Mejia 29:13
Yeah. A lot a lot of people are struggling with. Yeah. Even if even if we weren't in the cost of living crisis, that would still be a struggle. That's another...
Martin Furber 29:24
Okay, I was just gonna say just going back to the financial crisis thing for a minute or two, just touching on something Nova said about credit cards, I know we're, we've put that section away but. What, what happens with certain people when they are in dire financial straits? And you know, the emotional brain takes over and they start spending on a credit card uncontrollably. Logically they know they shouldn't do that. But, the emotional brain takes over and it's the same thing with eating. Logically you know, you shouldn't consume more calories than you're going to burn off. But nevertheless, you'll still do it. Because, you know, you're in your primitive brain. You know, I think as part of this mental health crisis that we're having at the moment that, you know, we've yet to see the results of people starting to do desperate things like that, because of the situation. It's the kind of thing people do when they are in dire straits, they'll they'll just carry on regardless.
Denise Billen-Mejia 30:28
You know, especially with major holidays coming-up. Over spending happens even at the best of times. Unwise spending, you know, that guilt. I can't buy your five books, okay. But I, you know, buy your bike and this and that and the other. And it's very difficult for people.
Martin Furber 30:51
Well, that's the marketeers again, they you know, talking about hypnosis, they know exactly how to get under people's skin and make you feel that your life is going to be so fabulous once you have this product, you know, didn't realise you needed yet. And, you know, it's you know, your life will be perfect once you drink this drink or eat this food, and we'll all be sat around and happy eating just like on the telly commericals. And that's how they get under the skin and create that as we were talking about before fear of missing out.
Nova Lewis 31:20
Yeah, and I think the other thing as well, big thing is addiction. So people are seeing things all you know, spend money on this like gambling on an advert you'll win X amount of money, people that are desperate, they're gonna say well, I'll just do a little bit. I'll just do a little bit and I'll just try and win some money.
Martin Furber 31:43
That's something Nova you've hit on because correct me if I am wrong Denise, I think it's still the case, isn't it? online gambling is banned in the States.
Nova Lewis 31:50
Yep, but over here...
Martin Furber 31:52
You don't have online casinos and things.
Denise Billen-Mejia 31:54
We've got we've got work arounds. It's not part of the culture I move in. But yeah, they're, I mean, there's a lot of...
Martin Furber 32:01
It's a big thing over here, you know, especially on a Friday and Saturday night about 10 o'clock, when they know people have come home from the pub and a few drinks and the resistance is low. All these gambling and online casino things come on television they're horrendous. When you think in this country, actual casinos that your physical ones that you go into are so strictly governed. There's no alcohol at the tables, you have to go to a separate bar area to drink alcohol, you can't tip the coupier, it is really really strict and controlled. And yet this online stuff is just a free for all. Talk about consumer addictions that is terrible, absolutely terrible.
Nova Lewis 32:38
And when people are desperate and they need money. It's so easy. It's so easy to do. It's so easy to access and then it just draws you in. And that's it.
Denise Billen-Mejia 32:59
We hope you've enjoyed listening. Please remember this podcast is designed to give you an insight into therapeutic hypnosis, and is for educational purposes only. So remember, consult with your own healthcare professional if you think something you've heard may apply to you or a loved one.
Martin Furber 33:15
If you found this episode useful, you could apply for free continuing professional development or CME credits. Using the link provided in the show notes. Feel free to contact either of us through the links in the show notes.