Denise Billen-Mejia 0:07
Welcome to Two hypnotherapists talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia in Delaware, USA.
Martin Furber 0:13
And me Martin Furber in Preston UK.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:16
This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who would like to know more about fascinating subject of hypnosis, and the benefits that it offers.
Martin Furber 0:24
I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and psychotherapist,
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:27
I'm a retired medical doctor, turned consulting hypnotist.
Martin Furber 0:31
We are two hypnotherapists talking.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:34
So let's get on with the episode.
Martin Furber 0:39
Yep, let's get on with the show. What are we talking about this week?
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:44
I think we need to talk about old habits and why they won't die.
Martin Furber 0:50
Old habits? Well, we could get all technical and talk all neuroscience, if you want to do that.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:56
We can do that.
Martin Furber 0:57
Yeah. Well, I think it might be interesting for our viewers and listeners actually to talk about some of the neuroscience behind it. Because, so many times you it hear about hypnotherapy, don't you? It's pseudoscience, it's this that and the other.
Denise Billen-Mejia 1:12
Yeah, I hear that from a lot of people, but it isn't!
Martin Furber 1:15
Well, this is the thing, this is the thing, and I'm gonna use the D word. You know, a doctor wouldn't advocate for something that's pseudoscience would they?
Denise Billen-Mejia 1:25
I would hope not, although unfortunately Covid did show us that certain ones were willing to. The vast majority more than nine out of 10 Doctors believe in evidence before they'll prescribe something Yes. But we also will accept a preponderance of anecdotal evidence. There's a lot of stuff, we can't explain why it works, but it does. And it appears not to be causing harm and hypnosis been around for thousands of years and studied properly for the last couple of hundred. So in the way that we think of as studies, so I feel perfectly comfortable, not just using it, but also recommending it to my friends.
Martin Furber 2:06
Now I was looking at something that interested me and it stems from something when I was very first studying hypnosis, and it was stuff by John Ratey about how the mind works. And he called it brain derived neurotropic factor.
Denise Billen-Mejia 2:26
That's a nice word.
Martin Furber 2:26
Yeah, I know, basically, the chemicals we produce within ourselves when we're taking ourselves for some brisk exercise. He says in his book, Spark, it's as good as having a hit of Ritalin and a hit of something or other else as well. It makes you feel good, and lifted and what have you. Okay, that was that was his sort of, well, it's anecdotal, it's evidence based. He did a lot of stuff in America, John Ratey, with his book in the, I'm remembering this off the top of my head now, it's been four years since I read the book. In the Chicago area, he devised a phys ed thing in schools where the pupils were doing phys ed stuff in the morning before lessons and their grades shot up.
Denise Billen-Mejia 3:11
Good.
Martin Furber 3:12
Yeah,
Denise Billen-Mejia 3:12
We also know children need playtime. And we've also spoken in a previous episode about the importance of taking breaks. Yeah.
Martin Furber 3:23
Oh, absolutely, yeah.
Denise Billen-Mejia 3:26
All of the above. Actually, part of the reason I wanted to talk about those, was a client of mine, recently who was terribly gung ho, but she was terribly gung ho, in wanting to overcome, she's a fear of driving. So we were working on on her practising driving, in her mind. She's mechanically competent, she has been driving for decades, but she's suddenly become fearful.
Martin Furber 3:50
Was that as a result of an accident or something.
Denise Billen-Mejia 3:53
It was, there was an incident several years ago. And it's just it's we all catastrophise and so I forgot to, although I'd alluded to allowing old pathways to, to degrade but I had not stressed to her that unless she really had to drive she should probably just skip it. So unfortunately, for the first week after her first session, she very promptly said, I managed to get myself in the car, right? No, no, no, no, no, no, that's what I want you to do, but thank you for trying.
Martin Furber 4:27
Weel, you must have already eliminated some of her fears then.
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:30
Oh, yes. No, she's always, she has not stopped driving.
Martin Furber 4:35
Okay.
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:36
And she doesn't have, but she has had some panic attacks, that's what she's really worried about. It's getting to the point where she doesn't even want to be in a car with somebody else driving. So I just suggested that without going under house arrest, she should avoid getting in a car if she can. It's lovely, go spend some time in your garden. Order in. You can't. You can't really survive very Long in America without some form of wheel transportation, that is unless you're living in one of the really big cities,
Martin Furber 5:07
I was gonna say, distances don't seem to be any object over there.
Denise Billen-Mejia 5:11
Yeah, because we've got wheels and gas. Yeah,
Martin Furber 5:13
Yeah, I know when I stayed in LA, a couple of people said to me, Oh, do you want to come for a drink at such and such a bar? It's like, where's that? Down the road? It was 35 miles away.
Denise Billen-Mejia 5:21
Oh, that's nothing.
Martin Furber 5:22
It was nothing. You know. That's a major expedition over here.
Denise Billen-Mejia 5:26
I know I remember, I remember just going to Salisbury to Southampton, you have to plan ahead. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. She's now just practising in her head. She did have a couple of appointments that she didn't want to miss. So I need to check in with her soon. Because I check in with all of my clients every few days. In order to gauge whether we need to have a session at the week mark or the two week mark if they need a new audio.
Martin Furber 5:55
Yeah, a case by case basis.
Denise Billen-Mejia 5:55
Yeah, see how they're doing. But that did make me think oh, yeah, of course, if you keep doing something, I mean, I know this, I should have been more explicit. But and then you happen to have gone to this course which reminded you of all the science behind it.
Martin Furber 6:16
What's interesting, though, is like you say, in habit forming. So you've got a lady who has become increasingly nervous every time she's got in a car. So whatever that fear is, has been reinforced each time, you know, a bad habit loop.
Denise Billen-Mejia 6:29
Right! So now she's at the point where she's worried about being worried.
Martin Furber 6:32
Yeah, yeah, that's it. No, I was, I was on a course of the weekend to do with neuroscience. And of course, I can remember some of the big words. But it's, you know, for me, it provides the evidence for what we do and takes away the thing that people say, no, it's pseudoscience, or it's this that on the other. I think, a big part of the woowoo. For me, I like evidence based stuff. And for me when you start looking at how they monitor things on EEG equipment, and then you can see the difference between when somebody's in trance, or when they are just lying there and thinking about something. You can see the difference on the EEGs. Again, they've got little things for it. It's like your What is it now, you're awake Alpha or busy Beta?
Denise Billen-Mejia 7:26
That's helpful. You just have to remember the Greek for me.
Martin Furber 7:32
It's all Greek to me, too. And then you've got what is it now? The thinking Theta, that's the one you say, for Theta waves.
Denise Billen-Mejia 7:40
Oh, all right,
Martin Furber 7:41
When we're in trance
Denise Billen-Mejia 7:43
What - trancey Theta?
Martin Furber 7:47
Thinking Theta. Yeah, so it was I was just fascinated by it. I have been ever since I first saw one on a client in trance on an EEG machine. You can actually see the difference between that and when somebody is asleep and dreaming because we quite often say in hypnotherapy, I don't know if you do, but I do, that part of what we're doing relaxing the client when we're trying to remove emotions from memories, replicates REM sleep, but it only replicates certain parts of REM sleep because our brain is you know, operating on different brainwaves.
Denise Billen-Mejia 8:25
It's also trying to clear stuff out I think. I just tell people it's like having a really good daydream.
Martin Furber 8:33
Well, yeah, that's the thing as well, Theta. Hypnosis it is similar to daydreaming. And of course, if you've ever had a really good daydream, you know he could be completely oblivious to what's happening around you. You know if, I can remember particularly when I was at school, actually daydreaming in the classroom. And you've been unaware for five minutes of what's happening, and the teacher suddenly chucks a board duster at you or something.
Denise Billen-Mejia 8:57
I wasn't asleep! I wasn't asleep!
Martin Furber 8:57
Well, you're not asleep, not as in the traditional sense of eyes closed asleep, but you're certainly miles away. And I suppose to me, that's my nearest fit of how I am if I go under hypnosis, you're aware of your surroundings, but.
Denise Billen-Mejia 9:18
The gizmo that does this, the gizmo for the EEGs which, you know, I think of them as the huge things that are attached to walls and people, there are wires coming out everywhere. There's a very simplified version now and yeah, so what are you using there's only so many leads, you don't need all of them.
Martin Furber 9:35
You can get ones with as few as five leads, that will show the basic areas. The one that I've seen and it seems to be being used now I've got 14 on which to me seems more adequate for the purposes.
Denise Billen-Mejia 9:35
I was wondering how is, in cardiology you've got Holter monitors where you have, where you're hooked up, and you've got a little recorder that you can be attached to you, so you can get about. Do they have a version that you can get about because I wonder what what information we might gain from 'awake alert' hypnosis, that would be really nice to see some brainwave activity while people are doing that
Martin Furber 10:13
Ah yeah, there is a sort of mobile version for recording things on it and then downloading it afterwards, you know, on to a SIM card. There are different versions, they've got a really, really simplified version, which is basically like ear pods with just two sensors for left and right side of the brain, which isn't gonna give you an awful lot of information. I don't think.
Denise Billen-Mejia 10:35
No, but it might be handy to, I mean, some of this is to gain actual information. But the really big studies need to be done on the big machines at the big hospitals, yeah, this is partly to show your clients.
Martin Furber 10:48
Yeah, these are just for research purposes.
Denise Billen-Mejia 10:49
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Martin Furber 10:52
They state that as well. The manufacturers state that you know, it's for research.
Denise Billen-Mejia 10:57
Well, yes. But what I mean is, I think we'd have to see how robust the machines are. I don't mean jumping up and down on them.
Martin Furber 11:08
No, but it's as I say, it was fascinating stuff, and what really, really interested me was the bits about neuroplasticity, which of course, you know, that explains hypnotherapy, doesn't it in a lot of ways in terms of how we make new habits, and how we open those neural pathways. Because, again, when we're speaking anecdotally about neural pathways, it could sound woo-woo it's not is it?
Denise Billen-Mejia 11:39
they've been there all along. We just didn't have a name for them.
Martin Furber 11:42
It wasn't that many years ago, we thought we couldn't make new brain cells as adults.
Denise Billen-Mejia 11:47
Or liver.
Martin Furber 11:49
Yeah, yeah, the liver can repair itself can't it, even after horrendous damage.
Denise Billen-Mejia 11:56
So what's the takeaway, Martin?
Martin Furber 12:00
What's the takeaway? Well, I was really pleased that it confirmed to me a lot of what we do. So from a scientific point of view, rather than a pseudo science point of view, which because let's face it, as hypnotherapists, I find this, I dare say you find this, with a lot of clients that come to us, they've tried many other methods first, they'll come to hypnotherapy as a last resort. You know, they've tried traditional therapy, maybe even counselling or something. And they try hypnotherapy as a last resort, perhaps. I won't say half heartedly, but, you know, thinking, 'Oh, well, if nothing else has worked, I may as well try this'.
Denise Billen-Mejia 12:45
Yeah, but it won't work anyway. Which is of course, the other stuff we end up doing in language in hypnosis.
Martin Furber 12:51
Yeah, so it is good. I mean, I am all about giving detailed explanations when people come to me, first of all, I like to explain how the mind works, how the primitive mind works. How, you know, when we're in that frame of mind, or that state of mind, we can't think straight. We can't think logically because we're not in the logical brain. So it's good to give that explanation and people relate to it. You know, there's, to me there's no point calling out we great big words and blinding people with science, you're just trying to make yourself look smart. People want something they can relate to, don't they?
Denise Billen-Mejia 13:27
So are you going to, you have one of these machines? Are you getting one of those machines?
Martin Furber 13:31
Oh, yeah, I'm getting one I'm getting one.
Denise Billen-Mejia 13:34
Is that because you're addicted to tech? Or are you really planning on using it with clients?
Martin Furber 13:38
Well, I'm a big techy anyway. But I would like to use it with clients. And I would like to use it on one of our podcasts. I'm not quite sure how we can do it yet. Whether you're gonna hypnotise me?
Denise Billen-Mejia 13:50
Whilst you're attached to a machine?
Martin Furber 13:53
Yeah, well, I can be attached to the machine and it can be plugged into my computer and we can be monitoring them both.
Denise Billen-Mejia 13:59
That will be interesting. Yeah. I inquire as to whether this is a huge investment on your part, or is it an acceptable investment?
Martin Furber 14:08
It's acceptable. It's no dearer than a brand new iPhone.
Denise Billen-Mejia 14:13
Okay. All right. Yeah, that's doable.
Martin Furber 14:17
Yeah, it's doable.
Denise Billen-Mejia 14:18
Yeah. I mean, it's not like you think you can have a regular hypnosis session, or I could plug you into this machine and charge X, cost you more so I can get my money back? No, no, this is just for your continued education.
Martin Furber 14:29
And, and, yeah, I'm a bit geeky and techy as well. So I think it could be reassuring to people to show them at this point, this is when you were in this, you know, thinking part of the brain, because the thing is, we're only aware of our conscious thoughts, and this is something that was brought up over the weekend. We're not aware of our subconscious thoughts until they pop up into our conscious.
Denise Billen-Mejia 14:29
And somebody makes you realise that they've happened. Yeah, that's often, which is the role of the therapist really.
Martin Furber 15:04
Yeah. So I think it could be good to show people that yes, your brain is thinking and working even when you think you're totally relaxed. Yeah, that is when the brain is working. I think it could prove useful. Certainly better than using a GSR meeting just to show, you know, relaxation. You don't need to say to somebody, I can prove you were relaxed as they'll know they were relaxed, or know they weren't. But to be able to show do you, actually your mind was working really quickly on this part, even though you were relaxed.
Denise Billen-Mejia 15:38
Right, now do you remember that, when you first see a client, they're often very nervous, when you do your initial consultation, you do a quick relaxation hypnosis session, right?
Martin Furber 15:48
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Denise Billen-Mejia 15:51
So that they at least aren't quite so nervous by the time they get to the real first session. But do you think you're going to have people who are tech phobic or funny machines on my head?
Martin Furber 16:04
Well, I won't be an obligatory thing. It's just something I'm going to offer people would you like to see what happens in your brain, whilst you know, you're in hypnosis?
Denise Billen-Mejia 16:12
I just wondered though, even if they might be willing and maybe curious, that it's putting another barrier, whether you might need to build an extra 10 minute buffer into your sessions, so that they can relax.
Martin Furber 16:25
Oh yeah, it takes time to put saline on the things, the contacts, you know, it takes time, you got to do those just before you use them and one thing and another. No, it will just be offered as an extra thing, if people are interested to see what happens. Again, for people who want to try hypnosis, but may, you know, again, be doubtful be dubious. And it's like, well, would you like to see what happens to your brain when we're in hypnosis? Because most people ask, I don't know, if you have this with your first time clients, you know, what actually happens? What are you going to do? They think you're gonna go 'Click'.
Denise Billen-Mejia 17:00
Yeah, there's a lot of that. So how does this work?
Martin Furber 17:03
Yeah, yeah, that's it. So to me if I can offer that as an option. Would you like to see how it works?
Denise Billen-Mejia 17:09
You have an advantage over me because I work almost entirely online. So you know, mail this new iPhone to somebody? Yeah, have them do it themselves. But I'd be very interested to know what you find.
Martin Furber 17:22
Yeah, well watch this space. Maybe we'll start series four off with it.
Denise Billen-Mejia 17:29
You're expecting it will arrive in the next couple of months.
Martin Furber 17:32
Oh, yeah. Yeah, it will, it WILL!
Denise Billen-Mejia 17:36
What were you? What was that just a general CPD course you were on at the weekend?
Martin Furber 17:41
It was specifically neuroscience?
Denise Billen-Mejia 17:44
Yeah. But it was really, it was part of continuing education.
Martin Furber 17:49
Yeah. As I say, it was really, quite heavy going and it even covered epigenetics, and how our DNA can be altered by our surroundings, circumstances and situations. And that was pretty mind blowing. I couldn't even attempt to repeat it. I'm still processing it.
Denise Billen-Mejia 18:13
Well, so what they say, it says in the Bible, the sins of the fathers are visited by seven generations. It does, anything that happens to you is going to affect that, it's a knock on effect. Yes, probably we consider it psychological. But there's quite a bit of evidence that things really do change you.
Martin Furber 18:32
yeah, well this was what was covered. And that brought me into a recent thing I was looking into as part of my other work as a mental health first aid trainer, which was about racism. And yep, inherent trauma.
Denise Billen-Mejia 18:57
But actually, that was what made me think of the DNA stuff because I can't remember her name now. I actually know her and I can't remember her name, Joy, but I can't remember the last bit. She talks about traumatic stress, it's slave. People with, black Americans have that history. And that has gone down through the generations, it's not just in the inherent trauma, and of course, the perpetuated trauma, because the economic trauma and racism and microaggressions.
Martin Furber 19:32
Yep, well, this is it. I mean, this is what we were talking about with them systemic racism, institutionalised racism, and it's only when you particularly begin to study it. And I'm thinking of really, really simple stuff here. Okay. I'm not talking about people who want to eradicate all kinds of language but you think of the word black and the negative connotations we use with it. A black list, the black sheep of the family
Denise Billen-Mejia 20:00
Or black magic, sometimes that's good, good chocolate!
Martin Furber 20:04
But then you say if something's good, it's whiter than white. Okay, yeah. Now, you think well, what can that do on a subconscious level to somebody. Hmm, yeah, it got me thinking he got me thinking it's good to, you know, think of other people's points of view from, you know, try and see the world through their window as it were. And it got me thinking and we covered inherent trauma on the course. That was really interesting stuff. And when you when you sit back and look at it, you think, yeah, I can see this.
Denise Billen-Mejia 20:34
So, is there a follow up course? On that subject?
Martin Furber 20:41
Yeah, yeah, there's, there's a lot more stuff coming out, because MHFA, England, have sort of launched themselves as an anti racist organisation, they're going all out to, you know, help stamp out racism, which can only be a good thing.
Denise Billen-Mejia 20:57
Actually I said, when I first became a hypnotist. The problem is, of course, the client has to realise that they have the issue that they wish to, because these are, these are all the subconscious thoughts that have been put into your brain over repetition, mostly, yeah. I'm not necessarily intellectually believed by the person spouting them but yes, that's, that's the way stuff gets in. And if we could, we could, if people could be persuaded that it might be good to have a little clean out of their unconscious biases?
Martin Furber 21:36
Yeah, have you done that Harvard test? I can't remember what it's called now. The one on unconscious bias?
Denise Billen-Mejia 21:43
Which one there are several?
Martin Furber 21:45
I can't remember the name of it now. But there's, there's one you could well, it's probably a few you can do online. There's one particular one you can do online. It was a friend of mine who's black who gave me the link to it. Just to discover your own unconscious bias is that, I wouldn't say it's scary. It's informative. Yeah, it's informative. You know, as someone who thinks for me, I think I'm quite aware of things, I you know, I try to be careful in the language you use, as I do with everybody. But it's amazing what unconscious biases we have. And we don't realise.
Denise Billen-Mejia 22:20
Actually, I liked that little story. You were telling me you should tell people that story.
Martin Furber 22:24
Which one was that?
Denise Billen-Mejia 22:26
The one about Goldilocks. Or you don't have to use Goldilocks, but you could use a story similar to that. All the things we assume about.
Martin Furber 22:36
Yeah, that story? Yeah. Listening. Yeah. Don't make assumptions when you're listening to something. Yeah, I've gotta be careful what I say because they copyrighted that. well basically, I had to listen to a version of Goldilocks and the Three Bears. And it sounded just like the traditional story. You know, Goldilocks, goes into the house tries the different bowls of porridge. One of them's just right. She tries three different chairs breaks one. And then she goes up to bed. She tries two of the beds. One was to hard, one too soft, the third one, she falls asleep. And then there were 15 questions afterwards. And they started off with question number one. Goldilocks was a little girl true or false? Well, we don't know. Because nowhere in the story does it state Goldilocks is a little girl. She could have been a teenager. Yep. Okay. And then it was things like Papa Bear's bed was too hard. Well, we don't know. Because the story just said the first bed she tried was too hard, the second bed was too soft. We don't know whose bed it was. And it's things like that. We assume it was Papa bears head! Bears bed! It was too soft, put me teeth in! Because maybe the original story we heard it was Papa bear's bed. But in that particular one we were listening to it, wasn't. But we assume it was, and this is the thing. We talk about active listening, which for us as therapists is incredibly important with all our clients, isn't it? That we don't make any assumptions on what they say and that we do actually listen to everything. Make sure that they know we've heard them. Which of course we do by repeating back to them what they've just said to us.
Denise Billen-Mejia 24:11
Yeah, which always sounds a little odd
Martin Furber 24:13
I know but just to get that re-confirmed. It's to let them know that we have heard what they're saying. You know, again,
Denise Billen-Mejia 24:20
Without judgement.
Martin Furber 24:21
Yeah, absolutely without judgement. I'd be the last person to judge anybody. Neuroscience neuroscience I mean, what developments did you see as a doctor over the years?
Denise Billen-Mejia 24:35
Oh, tonnes, not a huge, most of it is just the ability to look inside the brain. The MRI was amazing. Functional MRIs are phenomenal, which is. That that is where the, where there's slices through the brain. But yeah, but the functionalist is similar, you can see the areas light up when you're doing something and so for the David Spiegel's of the world who can do real research because they've got all the gizmos, or they've got masses of money behind them and some serious science chops. And that stuff is pretty, pretty stunning. It used to be, you know, if you had, if you bumped your head, we just watched you and wouldn't let you go sleep which it seems very unfair. Nowadays, you can actually take a look and see and you can reassure people.
Martin Furber 25:41
I mean, I suppose how many years back would it be when somebody had a nasty bang to the head and then obviously had some kind of neurological problem that they just have to cut the scalp open and have a look?
Denise Billen-Mejia 25:51
A few years back now!
Martin Furber 25:53
Other than an x ray, of course.
Denise Billen-Mejia 25:55
Well, we did plan X rays, but that was the generation before me in medicine, and CAT scans were definitely established by the time I was around.
Denise Billen-Mejia 25:55
Is that the same as a CT scan a CAT scan?
Denise Billen-Mejia 26:03
Yes Ct scan is a CAT scan. And then the MRI came along while I was in training. And it's that really opened things up. And now there's PET scans, there's all sorts of radiological studies that we can do. So what else did you learn on this course?
Martin Furber 26:23
All right. Right, okay. We were talking about the, I'll come out with the big words, but it's the only time I'll do it. The motor cortex and somatosensory cortex Okay, which in my understanding of it, in my limited understanding of it, was to do with the sensations for example, from the fingertips into the brain or the other extra sensitive parts of the body.
Denise Billen-Mejia 26:53
Yeah, any any of which are you you're, you've got to see a picture of the homunculus did you?
Martin Furber 27:01
I just felt as a man, I find it rather amusing, his hand was about 50 times the size of his genitals, I would have thought they were the sensitive bit.
Denise Billen-Mejia 27:08
Perhaps less used. That actually does hark back to, did we talk about that that pinprick sensation study that we were talking about recently. O, because that's sort of, that's part of the same thing, right. You hypnotise somebody under under hypnosis, you tell somebody, their finger is much larger than it is, and they will have a better sense of touch.
Martin Furber 27:36
They can differentiate between two needles, which are very close to each other. Whereas, if you just ask them, to tell you how many needles were there, and you had two needles really close to each other, they'd only be able to detect one from either of the two needles and couldn't differentiate and separate them out in the mind because it were too close. Whereas in hypnosis, making them imagine or getting them to imagine their finger's a lot bigger, they could actually differentiate between the two needles. So what's happening there then in hypnosis for them to be able to differentiate?
Denise Billen-Mejia 27:36
I don't know, apparently, the brain is easy to fool.
Martin Furber 28:13
We know that, all you have to do is watch a video of a rollercoaster ride or a horror movie to know the brain can easily be fooled. You know, or my favourite ones to watch, are when somebody's doing a bungee jump off a high building.
Denise Billen-Mejia 28:26
Oh, God.
Martin Furber 28:27
I hang on to the chair!
Denise Billen-Mejia 28:31
I leave the room. I don't want to know.
Martin Furber 28:34
No, I must admit I do like things like that.
Denise Billen-Mejia 28:37
Doing them or watching them?
Martin Furber 28:38
Oh watching them of course.
Denise Billen-Mejia 28:40
Okay.
Martin Furber 28:41
You won't get me on hights. I get a nosebleed in a pair of thick socks! No, no, my climbing days are long over, I'm afraid. No, so as I was saying, we were just talking about the link between basically our sensitive areas and the brains. Of course, it went into all the scientific side of it. But again, of course, if you can send a signal from there to there, you can send one from there to there, can't you.
Denise Billen-Mejia 29:05
Exactly. Yeah. In fact, you are all the time. That's what happens. Yes. Yeah. So what, what are your...
Martin Furber 29:15
If you've got a signal, there telling you ouch here, if you could control that signal there.
Denise Billen-Mejia 29:20
But we do that with pain control all the time. We tell our clients to turn those controls down. So they don't Yeah,
Martin Furber 29:27
Yeah. So can you believe it at the end of another episode?
Denise Billen-Mejia 29:33
Yes, because we yatter on together all the time. Yeah. If we really recorded every conversation we have, this will be a massive podcast. So who do we have next week?
Martin Furber 29:49
Oh, Sharon Waxkirsh.
Denise Billen-Mejia 29:51
Right. Now, what would you remind me again, what did we talk about because we have recorded this already.
Martin Furber 29:57
Well, Sharon is very much evidence based isn't she, and she works with doctors, surgeons, dentists, and does a lot of enabling these people to perform their various surgeries where their patients are just hypnotised, no anaesthetic, or some anaesthetic. And of course, everything she's done is well documented, isn't it? And she actually trains doctors and dentists how to use hypnosis. And we also got on to hypnotising dogs but you have listen right to the end of that episode to find out about that, I'm not giving anything away,
Denise Billen-Mejia 30:35
Say goodbye to us and see you again next week, bye bye.
Martin Furber 30:39
See you next week.
Denise Billen-Mejia 30:47
We hope you've enjoyed listening. Please remember this podcast is designed to give you an insight into therapeutic hypnosis, and is for educational purposes only to remember, consult with your own healthcare professional if you think something you've heard may apply to you or a loved one.
Martin Furber 31:04
If you found this episode useful, you can apply for free continuing professional development or CME credits. Using the link provided in the show notes. Feel free to contact either through the links in the show notes. Join us again next week.
