Denise Billen-Mejia 0:07
Welcome to Two hypnotherapists talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia in Delaware, USA.
Martin Furber 0:13
And me Martin Furber in Preston UK.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:16
This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who'd like to know more about fascinating subject of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.
Martin Furber 0:24
I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and psychotherapist,
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:27
I'm a retired medical doctor turned consulting hypnotist.
Martin Furber 0:31
We are two hypnotherapists talking.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:34
So let's get on with the episode.
Martin Furber 0:36
Okay, let's get on with the episode indeed. Denise, over to you.
Denise Billen-Mejia 0:40
Absolutely. Martin. I'm so happy today to have Andrew Andy workman joining us from the UK not not too far from where I grew up, he has an accent I fully remember. But he's got such a big story we may have to make this a long episode or make it into two, because Andy, he was first a police officer in the RAF. Is that correct?
Andy Workman 1:03
Yes, yeah, I left school and joined the military. Yeah.
Denise Billen-Mejia 1:06
How long were you, did you serve?
Andy Workman 1:07
I only did three years I signed on for nine. And that, part of the way is the reason I left, I thoroughly enjoyed my service. It was a fantastic place to be. Particularly as a young man, I wasn't single. I met my good lady wife, who I'm still with now, when we were 16. So, we were already together when I went into the Royal Air Force, with full intentions of getting married whilst I was there, and see my career through. But, having joined the Air Force in cold war times, and don't get me wrong, I didn't want to go into battle. It wasn't the job I thought it was going to be. I was recruited to be a police officer. that's what I wanted to do. And I got trained as a police officer, I did all my law studies. And the second I went to my base camp, they gave me a camouflage suit. They gave me three live weapons. And I sat in a field and I guarded nuclear warheads, for three years. In an attempt to keep myself sane, I was counting the holes in a chain link fence some evenings.
Martin Furber 2:14
Did you find it hypnotic?
Andy Workman 2:13
Absolutely, so that's how I wonder how I ended up in the same occupation some years later! So my good lady came down to visit me obviously as my fiancee at the time. She saw the conditions under which many of the married quarters, many of the people were living in, in the married quarters, and said there is no way I'm going to bring a family up in those conditions. And so, three years into it, I decided to follow my original career path, which was to become a civilian police officer.
Andy Workman 2:31
Was that in, in this country in the US, that's actually very much appreciated. They give preference. They can pull their rank over even, into civil police. So did you managed to do that or did you have to start on the floor again?
Speaker 3 3:03
Well, I started at the floor again, I think if I'm honest back in the 1980s, I joined the Civil Police in 86. There's no doubt at all that being a military personnel back then definitely did open some doors for me. I don't think it made it any easier. As in, I still had to do all my tests and exams and my fitness and everything else. But you were definitely looked on favourably because of the discipline side of things. But the service has changed so much now, that I retired, having done 32 years back, about nine years ago now. And by the time I left it, the service had changed dramatically. It was no longer, when I joined it was referred to as the police force. And over the time I was a member of It suddenly became the police service. Because they wanted to lose that military or authoritarian persona, I suppose that image. And now people are, the people that are encouraged to join the police. I have the greatest of respect for them, but they're a very different crowd now to the ones that were encouraged when I first started. But society changes and recruiting has to change, or else you get it very wrong, you know, that's where we get problems.
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:19
So we need flexibility, that's what we were saying before the chat, in every aspect of life, we need to be flexible.
Andy Workman 4:26
Absolutely.
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:27
So you had a great career as a civil police officer.
Unknown Speaker 4:31
I did I thoroughly enjoyed my time.
Denise Billen-Mejia 4:34
You served in the West Country too?
Andy Workman 4:35
Yes, yeah, I've served on a number of in a different number of different roles. I went straight in as the bobby on the beat and we did do the beat back then. I've walked in the rain for eight hours being told not to come back in unless my life depended on it. And then I ended it. My dream was to become a road traffic patrol officer on the motorways, freeways I suppose, the highways you'd call it in the states perhaps. But that was because of a personal tragedy that I'd had as a child. And it drove me to want to be a traffic officer. And then once I'd started there, I decided that maybe promotion might be a good way of keeping my family fed.
Denise Billen-Mejia 5:17
That's definintely a positive choice.
Andy Workman 5:21
And so I became a sergeant and went back on to street policing, which is, it's funny, I'd always because of what had happened as a kid, I desperately wanted to be a traffic officer. I thought that was my my goal in life. I thought it was my path. And suddenly, I went back, on promotion, I went back to the streets. And my goodness, I didn't realise how much I'd missed that. It was just fabulous.
Denise Billen-Mejia 5:46
Because of the interaction with with the population?
Speaker 3 5:50
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And the feeling that, you know, I knew what I was doing as a traffic officer was doing something some good. But the amount of times you're asked as a traffic officer, if you've got nothing better to do, why aren't you out catching the rapist in the burglars, you know, well, yeah, I get that. But my colleagues are doing that. I'm currently trying to keep you alive whilst you're doing 160 miles an hour past a marked patrol, a patrol car without seeing it You fool. You know,
Denise Billen-Mejia 6:16
If you don't see a police car you..God knows why!
Speaker 3 6:17
Exactly what else haven't you seen whilst you've been travelling like Emerson Fittipaldi down the racetrack? You know. So, yeah. So I then became promoted to inspector, which is what I finished as, but on promotion there, I became a firearms commander. And that was interesting, because I'd never carried a firearms, firearm on the streets of the UK as a civilian police officer. And now all of a sudden, I'm in charge of everybody that is carrying a gun on the streets of Bristol. So that was an attention getter. That was stress. And then I ended up, beautifully, went back out onto the streets to finish my time operationally. And it was my dream that I finished as operationally on the day that I finished, as I was on the day I started, and I managed to do that. So I literally walked and I some colleagues end up in an office and that's fine. That's their calling. That wasn't, that wasn't me. I ended up operationally as I was, The day started. So it was good.
Denise Billen-Mejia 7:18
So at what point did you discover hypnosis? Did you actually retire and you know, go off to the Channel Islands for a bit?
Speaker 3 7:24
And that would have been very nice, actually. When I get my time machine, I might do that one. No, I, it was a strange story. My boys were a member of the Scout Association. And there was a lovely couple there that ran the scout unit that they belong to. And at one point, one of the leaders there appeared to lose an awful lot of weight very, very quickly. And we all got concerned and there was friendship amongst the leaders and I was one of them. We got a little bit concerned and I got pushed forward as the loudmouth copper to ask the questions for her husband. And I just said to him one day, you know, if there's anything you ever need to talk to me about, you know, I'm here. He said, Yeah, but that's a strange thing to say. I said, Well, you know, I'm here if you need me, and he said, Yeah, I know that, why, what are you getting at? Nothing. Nothing. He said, Come on, what are you getting at? Look, quite simple, you're good lady has lost an awful lot of weight very quickly, and we're all concerned. He went Oh, don't worry about it! Don't worry about it! It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. Okay. I can't tell you. she'd kill me if I told you. But that's okay. That's fine. As long as everything's all right. Oh, I gotta tell someone, he says, I've got to tell someone. So I said, all right. You said that she's done it through hypnosis. He said she's gone to see this wonderful man. And he's, I don't know he said to her Andy, he said, but her appetite and her self control is unbelievable. He said, it's just incredible. So being me and my sense of humour, I said, Okay, that's fine. I won't say anything. But you can buy my silence. Oh no, what now? I said, I need his details. So he said, I can't do that. She'd know. No. I said, No, she won't. I'm not even, I'm not going to use them myself. I'm going to pass those details straight to my brother. My brother really needs some help with his weight, and I'm just going to hand them over, he won't know where I've got them from. I'll just offer them as an option. So that's what I did. At the time. My brother won't be the least bit worried and me telling you, he was back 22 stone. He was a big man. He's me slightly taller than me. But he made two of me. And I said to him, why don't you give it a go. And bless him, he said, Yeah, I've tried everything else I will. A year later, funnily enough to the day, the anniversary of his very first appointment with this wonderful hypnosis Hypnotherapist. He ran the New York Marathon at 16 Stone. It had fallen off of him, to the point that everybody was asking him if he was well, so that stuck with me. And then at one point, I was unable to do my inspectors exam so I could not pass them no matter what I did, I could not pass them. So I said to him one day, do you think that Jim, your hypnotherapist would be able to help me with my exam stress? And he said, Yeah, I'm sure he could, why don't you speak to him? So anyway, we went up together, my brother was by that time, he was getting free treatment from his hypnotherapist because he was a walking advertisement. And literally, so many people were going to him and saying, how, have you done that? And he sent them to Jim, and so he was getting free top ups. And he came up with me and he said, I'll get a free top up and you get your treatment and that'll be done. So this guy puts me into a trance. I hate that word. I really, I don't know, as a hypnotherapist how we don't, how we can get round that. But he put me into a trance. And I can remember being copus mentus, so I could I could tell what was going on. I didn't want to open my eyes, even though I really wasn't sure that I still could. I didn't want to Oh, I cried. But I wasn't crying. It was weird. I wasn't crying, but my eyes were streaming down my cheeks like a baby. And this guy was really direct. He was telling me you know, you can do this, you've got belief in yourself. And the day you get that, and you really believe that you do have that belief in yourself, you can do this. And I can remember him saying, you know, you've you've been doing this job stood on your head for years, why can't you possibly put it on a piece of paper? Because you don't believe you can, so start believing, you know? Anyway, I came out of it, and I thought, well, that's great. But I don't feel that I can suddenly rush into an exam room and do anything. Typical mistake that most people make. But I'm a great believer in fete. And he said to us both, you've got a long way to travel back home now. It was about an hour away from us. And he said, I've got no more clients for the rest of the day. I'm going to make a cup of tea, would you like one? And something made both of us say yes. So, we sat there having a cup of tea, and I'm the sort that will wear his heart on his sleeve. So I said to him, I can't thank you enough, Jim. And he said, well we don't know if it has worked yet. Yeah. I said, No, no, no, it's not about my treatment. I'm thanking you, I can't thank you enough for what you've done for my brother. I gotta be careful, I don't choke here. I said, I think you've probably given me my brother for an extra decade, if not more. I said, I've been concerned about him. And I said, look at him now. And I know he's still in the room, and I mean, I'm talking past him. And my brother, Nigel says, well. that's no change there, is there? So I just can't thank you enough for what you've done for him. And out of the blue, this guy says to me, well, I'm nothing special. You could do what I do. And I said no way, oh behave! I couldn't do what you do. He said you could do what I do. I said, but I couldn't. He said, Andy, you could.
Denise Billen-Mejia 12:57
We've just talked about this, belief in yourself.
Andy Workman 13:00
Exactly. He said, You know, you've got a nice tone of voice. You've got a lovely accent. He said, and I appreciate that, that's not what everybody wants to hear, but most of your clients will be local. He said, all I do is relax people, and give them a little bit of advice, maybe a little bit of a chivvy on, he said, and you're a police manager. He said, if you don't give people advice in your job, who does? And he said, if you're not really good at getting the best out of your team, why are you in your role? He said, of course you could do that with other people. So when I go home that day, and my wife Karen, ever supportive, as she is, says to me, how did it go? And I said, he was fab. I'm going to be a Hypnotherapist. And she went, Oh my God! Not something else. She said, I didn't send you to do that. I said, no, no, let's be sensible about this. I said, I'm going to retire in about 10 years time. I don't want to be one of those old ex police officers sat in the corner of the office in my civilian clothing, saying we didn't do it like that in my day. I don't want to the old dog that goes back. So I said I'm going to look at it sensibly and see if I can do it. So anyway, time goes by. The little side note was, I did the exam that year. It was the first time I've ever, in my lifetime, walked into an exam hall thinking bring it on. I'm ready. Bring it on. I don't know where that came from, can't imagine. But I went into that room. Bring it on. I passed the exam. I passed 24th in the UK. I passed in the top one and a half percent. That makes you start thinking this stuff works.
Denise Billen-Mejia 14:44
So was the first call to your wife and the second one to the Hypnotherapist?
Andy Workman 14:49
Absolutely, absolutely. And it was that way round as well. But you see that just convinced me, I'm not trying to be arrogant in that, that actually, that was the reason I tell people that part of the story, and my arrogance goes to such an extent I actually phoned up the exam board to ensure that they'd sent the results to the right person, I did. I'm not joking. And the lady in London in the exam office spoke to me like I was a seven year old. She said, Yes Mr Workman, when you've done very well, well done! I only phoned up to check. So that's how, that's how much self doubt I had. Even though I'd done it, it was crazy. But having been promoted, I then start thinking, hang on a minute, I have got to start digging my tunnel now. My escape tunnel is getting closer and closer, and I need to dig in. So I did my course for hypnotherapy seven years before I retired. And absolutely loved it. I remember writing in, we all gave our trainers a thank you card at the end. And we all signed it and give them a couple of little gifts. And I actually remember clearly writing in that, but that card, thank you so much, not only for the training, but for changing my life. Because there's no doubt about it, it did. And they were telling me things that I was thinking, Oh, my goodness, this is why I've been in a pickle. This is why I've suffered in the past, you know, you don't do 30 years as a police officer without having a few little issues, by the time you finish. And I suddenly realised that Oh, my God, this is what this is what I should have been doing all along, you know. So yeah, I qualified, and then I worked. If I'm really honest, I worked stupidly, I worked like a dog. I was seeing, the reason I did I was able to do that was because I qualified and then put out an email to the whole of this my force saying if you're stressed and depressed and anxious or any of those things, I am offering free treatment as part of my training. If you want it get in touch.
Martin Furber 16:59
Were you swamped?
Andy Workman 17:00
Right!
Denise Billen-Mejia 17:00
So 75% called you?
Andy Workman 17:02
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I was a little bit like the Kardashian family breaking the internet, I nearly collapsed the force email system. And so you don't turn that opportunity away. So was work, I was seeing people before I went on to an afternoon shift, I was seeing people after I'd woken up from a night shift. I was seeing people on rest days, weekends. It was just ridiculous. But the beauty of that is for seven years, I worked like a Trojan. But when I retired the door from one career to the other was already wider. It was stained glassed, it was you know, it was wonderful. So my transition from one to the other was seamless, absolutely seamless. And is. So many people say to me, how on earth do you ever go from being a police officer to a Hypnotherapist? And I think a lot of that is down to their perception of what a police officer is.
Denise Billen-Mejia 18:01
And similar to the prejudices that people have for hypnosis. It's driven by TV and movies. They don't, you don't draw your gun every five minutes.
Andy Workman 18:13
Yeah, absolutely.
Martin Furber 18:15
The thing that jumped to my mind immediately, you know, the difference between, or not the difference, the similarity between a police officer and a Hypnotherapist? What you need to have with the people you deal with trust rapport. You've got it, you've got it as a police officer. The other thing is, you making that move, by having your colleagues as you know, when you were in training, all the apprehensions all the things, the misgivings people have about hypnotherapy, I would imagine with a suspicious police officer's mind would be, you know, more so. Straightaway, you've allayed those fears, because they know you were a police officer. And a Hypnotherapist.
Andy Workman 18:53
Exactly. And the nice thing is, is that, you know, there are so many benefits for me, but also for my clients. Hopefully, in that, you know, we are trained throughout our hypnotherapy, to ask open questions. I did that for 30 years, I've been interviewing people with open questions and getting as much information as I possibly can in such a short period of time, as I have been for 30 years. You know, as much as many people, through their own personal experiences, which I deeply respect will see police officers as authoritarian and rigid and, but actually I was in it for care. I was in as you know, I keep alluding to that mysterious thing in my childhood. But when I was 12, my grandfather was killed in a car accident. So you know, when that happens, you suddenly you realise that people need to be treated in a particular way. And so when I was on the traffic department, it wasn't about going out and getting speeding tickets just so that I could do it. It was about keeping people safe. It was about preventing the family going through what we had. So one caring profession into another, is not a difficult transition, if you've had the right mindset in the first one, I suppose.
Martin Furber 20:05
Yeah, and I would say somebody who's actually been a volunteer for our local police force on the independent advisory group. Yeah, the police is a caring profession, people's immediate first thing isn't but you know, when you're stuck for something, you're gonna see a policeman. That's the way I was brought up. If you're stuck for anything, you know, you are in a strange town, you've lost your wallet, you go to the police station, they'll help you out. They'll get you home. Yeah. And as I say, we're lucky in Lancashire, our police force is very, very proactive, involving and engaging the community in a lot of things. Okay, as you say, policing has changed. And maybe you know that that isn't how some officers would like things to be, but that's the way it is. And they engage properly and they do it properly. But we need to get back on to hypnotherapy.
Denise Billen-Mejia 20:57
So, my last police officer question for you is, when you morphed into I'd like some money for my treatment now. Did you get police officers coming to your still? Do you still market yourself to the caring professions? Are you just..
Andy Workman 21:17
So very interestingly, I have never had a problem with people being prepared to pay me, never. The second I started charging, it happened. And that was fine, you know? And yes, I do have that privilege of still helping people. I do have that because maybe because I offer them a discount or blue light discount as we refer to it here. I'm sure you have it over there too. And that's just my way of giving back and respecting the service that they continue to provide. The biggest problem I had as a police officer, going into a private practice, was my thought processes about charging people. I had real problems with charging people for my time
Martin Furber 22:01
The imposter monster!
Andy Workman 22:03
Yes. Oh, without a doubt, Martin.
Denise Billen-Mejia 22:06
It isn't, I had the same thing, because I worked in emergency, because you didn't ask people for their credit card when they came, you just dealt with whatever it was, somebody else had that problem, it was hard for me to be the one to be doing that.
Andy Workman 22:21
Yes, of course. You know, now that I'm 14 years in practice down the line, I'm supervising other people now and have been for a while. And I suddenly now been able to say to them, what my process was that I had to go through. And that is that, you know, your time is incredibly valuable. We can give away our food, we can give away our clothing, we can give away money all to charity or anyone else that needs it. And we can always do things because we can get more what we cannot ever get more of is our time ever. So actually, if we're selling our time, this silly little analogy I give people is, if somebody walked into your practice room right now, and said terribly sorry, but it's a bit late notice. But you know, we've just found out we've only got 59 minutes to live. Sorry about that. It's a given, there's no doubt about it, you've got just about an hour to live. If somebody immediately followed them and said, Sorry, it's really bad to hear that bad news. But I'd like to buy that hour off of you. I'd like to buy that last 59 minutes on your on this planet from you. I need your help for that length of time. How much would you charge them for that last hour? It's priceless. The really morbid thing and I'm not going to dwell on it is that my life has told me over a number of different experiences, we don't know when our last hour is, we don't. So you could be charging somebody 15 pounds because you don't want to do it any more than that for the last hour of your life for crying out loud. Now I didn't say for one minute, it needs to be $30 million now because it's my last hour, and people don't know that. But just have some ease in saying that this is my fee, and as long as you've done that upfront, if somebody comes into your room, they've already accepted that they're prepared to pay that. So you can lose the guilt because they've already made the decision for you. That's fine. But as you will appreciate Denise, as you've already said, coming from a place where somebody else made that decision made that demand and then just paid you a salary every month, that's a big mental step to take, it's an interesting one.
Martin Furber 24:28
It is mean I've worked for myself since I was 23 but, I've never, until I became a therapist, I've never been in the product as in charging for my time. Before that it was always products that I sold. Yes, I was a bespoke jeweller before I became a therapist. So that was a big change of career. Yeah, I was never frightened of putting forward the brand of the shop, the products, advertising it absolutely everywhere, but never my name, never my face. And it was only after I became a therapist, all of a sudden it was like, oh I am the product. And then it was like, I had to get over that ego thing, not be frightened of putting my photographs on things and using my name to put myself forward but that's when I got the imposter monster big time, wasn't it Denise
Denise Billen-Mejia 25:12
Yeah, but you got it down now.
Martin Furber 25:19
Oh, yeah, just picking up on some thing that you mentioned Andy. You were saying you don't like the use of the word trance. Denise as a fabulous expression she uses that I pinched off her 'therapeutic relaxation'.
Andy Workman 25:30
Nice. I like that. I like that. I very often use the 'I'm just going to relax you'. I'm just gonna, but therapeutic relaxation, I like that. That's very, that's very good, genius!
Martin Furber 25:44
I've already pinched it off her.
Denise Billen-Mejia 25:49
Okay, so you established your business. As you know, this is what I do, I'm a hypnotist. Do you work 24/7? Obviously not. Do you have set days that you work? Do you just work as needed? Are you still semi retired?
Andy Workman 26:06
Well, I suppose in one way, my good lady wife would tell you no. She will tell you I do more hours now than I did when I was a police officer, I think. But of course, the beauty of, the strange thing is, I've been I've been retired from the police service now for nine years. And still now, it's a novelty to have a bank holiday, that's a bank holiday. It's still a novelty to have a weekend, which is a weekend, it's absolutely fabulous. That sounds ridiculous, but if we haven't got any appointments on the Wednesday, and we go out mid week to a nice national trust building, or a visit to a gym, there's still novelty nine years down the line. I'm very easily pleased. Yes, I work Monday to Friday, I work during the day and on the evenings, Monday, Wednesday and Thursday. I try to take Friday, midday onwards off for a weekend. And my wife and I are incredibly obsessed with ballroom dancing. So we will go off and do a week's dancing and not think anything of it, which is still a novelty, we're off next week actually. But it's a bit like being at work, you know, you know that if you're going to take a week off, you better get your mail box sorted. You better clear it before you go because you know you're gonna get a big wad when you get back. And therapy is no different. You know, you're sort of backing up all your all your clients to get them in last week, and then make sure they're all in the week when you come back.
Denise Billen-Mejia 27:42
How much of your work week is spent on marketing yourself? Or have you passed the point where it's all it's needed?
Andy Workman 27:50
Yeah, I'm very lucky. I don't market at all, really. Because I've been in practice for so long now, recommendation provides enough clients for me to be honest. And I'm humbled by that. I mean, I don't lose sight of the fact that people are very, very kind to trust me that much that they can recommend me and act on that recommendation. Just because it worked for you, does not mean it's going to work for someone else. But I rarely market anything now. And I am very blessed because as a result of writing my book, I'm in good demand to go all over the world, speaking about mental health to corporate audiences and the like there. So I'm, I'm living the dream really.
Denise Billen-Mejia 28:36
I'm embarrassed to say that until Martin showed me your book a couple of weeks ago, I had not realised you had written it. When did you publish?
Andy Workman 28:44
It was back in 2016. And you don't need to be embarrassed about that! There are a lot of books around Denise, that's fine.
Denise Billen-Mejia 28:54
you see, I like the no nonsense approach to hypnosis. I don't do woo-woo I've got a God given gift that we all have. Yeah, and we should be using it more we should be teaching children very young how to regulate their emotions. There's there's so many ways it can be used.
Andy Workman 29:12
Yeah, that you're singing my song now, you know, if I could, if we could only get into primary schools and start talking to them about the fact, that what they think about, is what they get. And we're not talking about the law of attraction.
Denise Billen-Mejia 29:25
I'm not a big fan.
Andy Workman 29:25
Well, I could debate that for hours, because I could go on and go off a completely different tangent. But what we're talking about is, you know, if you, if you're, the way I describe it to my teenage audiences, which I've got plenty of them. The reticular activating system in your head acts as a radar, and it goes out to find evidence of your core beliefs being correct. So if you think the whole world is going to be against you, funnily enough, I'm gonna pick up on every single word, every signal that the world is against you. If you think the world is a wonderful place, funnily enough, it's gonna feed back, that it's a wonderful place, you know. And it's not until you explain to people how simple that process, that that concept is. So that the silly examples I give people is if you if you decide tomorrow, that you're going to buy your next motor car, and it's going to be a black BMW, you suddenly become aware of every black BMW on the road. It's not because BMW have paid for them to drive past your door, they haven't got that big of budget, you just suddenly become aware of all of the black BMWs.
Andy Workman 29:25
Yep, it's what you're tuned into.
Andy Workman 30:06
It's like when you're pregnant, everybody's pregnant all of a sudden.
Andy Workman 30:42
That's right, and more importantly, when you're not pregnant, everybody else is pregnant. I know, when we were trying for a family, like most people, it took a few more months than you thought it might. And all of a sudden, everybody's pregnant, all of us, everybody we meet, even if even the bloke coming out of the pub on a Thursday, lunchtime had a bigger belly than Karen. And that wasn't what we were planning. So you become aware of that, actually, it's what you think about is what you get purely because your brain is actively focusing on all of those aspects that it wants to prove right. And if we can only start people thinking in a more positive way, actually, their experience of life becomes much more positive, you know.
Denise Billen-Mejia 31:26
And that, of course, it feeds on itself.
Andy Workman 31:30
Of course, you know, one of the examples I've given in the past, which has been a bit controversial, but it's, you know, I'm sorry, but it's true, is, you know, as a police officer, if I stopped you, and your core belief, your indoctrination, from whatever, like the side of life is that we are all nasty, and we're all out to get you, actually, that's going to make you feel instantly threatened, that feeling is then going to colour your behaviour, because of your edgy behaviour that's going to colour my response to you. And my response immediately then feeds back into, there you are see, I knew he didn't make them he does. Okay. Now if you, if the same police officer stopped someone else who hasn't rightly or wrongly been indoctrinated that we're all saints and heroes, which we never were, I'm not saying that. But if that's the indoctrination you've received, all of a sudden, you're not going to feel threatened, you're going to feel blessed that this hero in a black uniform has stopped you, your behaviour is going to be so much different, and my response is going to be different. And it's going to feed into that, oh aren't they wonderful? No, they're not. But they're being paid to do their job, and I'm not I'm under no delusion. But it's very often, it's the thought process of one person that colours the whole experience for everyone. And it's, if we can get that into our heads, it's not about thinking all police officers are nice, they're not. It's about recognising that actually, if we treat the world as a friendly universe, we get a friendly response. Einstein himself said, the biggest decision we can make is whether our personal universe is a friendly one or not. It's true. If it comes from a genius like that, we can believe it.
Denise Billen-Mejia 33:11
So do you think that police officers and emergency care workers, or those people, should be taught some elements of hypnosis?
Andy Workman 33:21
Absolutely, I think it should be part of their basic training. That's a drum I'm gonna beat until my last dying breath. It should be part of their basic training.
Martin Furber 33:29
You've got a friend for life there Denise!
Denise Billen-Mejia 33:31
Absolutely! Have you had any success selling it to the C-suite, as they call it here?
Andy Workman 33:36
I have I've had, I've had a number of a number of forces take on my lectures regarding, my book is called cavemen and polar bears. Oh, Bless you, bless you. Thank you. So it's, the cheque's in the post, Martin. The that was the title of my signature presentation that I put together. And the reason I'm so convinced it's useful for the police is because actually, the reason it even came about was that I had recently recently qualified when I was promoted to become the firearms commander. And that roll is based in the communications room. Now that communications room takes 3000 calls a day, from people who are in desperate need of help. 1800 of those calls are on the 999 emergency line, what you would have as 911 so that is a stressful environment. And every one of those people are taking calls, never knowing what's going to be at the end of the line the next time they can pick it up and it could be my budgerigar has just passed away. That's fine, we can deal with that. It could be that very next call following that one, could be a woman that's just been seriously sexually abused, reporting it at the time, distressed. So it's hardly surprising that that communication room was a cauldron of stress, we were losing 10% of our workforce every single day through sickness. And in a department of 600 people across five shifts, that's over 60 people a day that we were losing. So I sat there thinking, this is ridiculous, we got to do something about calming these people down. So I just went to the boss of Chief Superintendent in this country. And I said to him, I've just recently qualified as a hypnotherapist, and I know why the brain works. And you know, typical, the fervour of a newly trained personnel. And I said, Do you mind if I try and do something about making us all feel a bit better? And I think very short of hugging me, he came out and said, Do what you can do what you can. It's no exaggeration at all to say that I had to deliver that presentation 18 times in order to make sure that we met everybody and spoken to every single person in that department. And by the time I did the 18th, presentation, we reduced the sickness by 66%. It had gone down. Yeah, it had gone down to 20 a day, from 60 a day. So other people got hold of that and said, Can you come? Can you come and speak to us? And I was cheeky. And I didn't think I'd ever get away with it by myself. I could, but of course, I did it for my department in their time, I'd have to do your department in mine, because I have to work for them. So I'd have to charge you to do it. Not a problem. Really? No, no, no problem. What would you charge? And I told them, and they had my arm off, and I thought I should have charged them more. But immediately, I started doing that. And then it got to, can you come and speak to my mum's church group? Can you come and speak to my dad's bank? Can you come and speak to this organisation who my boyfriend works for? I think it started to snowball. And then one day, I went to speak to an elderly people's group, and this lovely little old lady, probably an angel walking the earth in my, in my opinion. She came up to me, at the end, and she said young man that was marvellous. And the fact she had called me a young man bought me straightaway. But she said, Young man, that was marvellous. And I said, well, thank you ever so much. She said, that was just amazing. And I said, Well, I'm really pleased you enjoyed it. She said, young, I have to tell you, she said, I suffered from depression for over 40 years. And you're the first person who's ever told me how it happened. And you're the first person who's ever given me hope of it going away. You can hear it my voice, it still has that impact on me. So I said to her, nobody could say anything nicer today. Thank you for that. She said, Have you written it down anywhere? And I said, No, I haven't. And she said, You must do that, because it's a lot to remember. And I said, Yes, I will. And she grabbed hold of my arm, and she said, Write it! And I said, I will, and with that she gave me a big hug. Really big, hard policeman as I am. And I'm not at all, she reduced me to tears on my cheeks. And then she stepped away. She said, write that book young man, I'll be the first in the queue to buy it. And I started it that afternoon. So it's, um, it was just nice that actually, recognising that that message was incredibly important for the police service, for the people that are going through that stress. But it was just as important and just as powerful for a lady in her 80s, who was just going through the stresses and strains of life.
Martin Furber 38:26
Who felt understood for the first time.
Andy Workman 38:28
There we go. There we go.
Denise Billen-Mejia 38:31
And there are just so many issues. And there's, I always, when I'm explaining hypnosis, if the only thing we did was reduce anxiety in the medical profession, that would be enough. But there's so many other things that we can help with yes. Do you have a particular niche that you'd like to work with? Is there a particular thing you prefer?
Andy Workman 38:51
When it comes to training, things like that I like to do, I like to improve hypnotherapists understanding of post traumatic stress. I think sometimes some of this standard, some of the standard approaches such as counselling, and the sort of off the shelf, that's a terrible insulting thing to say, but the off the shelf therapists, they can do more damage than good. And they can do it with the best of intentions, but actually, to get somebody to keep revisiting a traumatic incident, and to try and make it better by undoing it and putting it back to that you can't do that. You can't, from my own personal experience, you can't do that. So I've developed an approach through solution focused hypnotherapy but slightly, slightly tweaked to my own design really, that actually we don't even go anywhere near the initial incident. You know, how can how can anybody where they're talking about it or or committing it to some therapeutic relaxation as I love. How can we possibly make seeing a colleague, being blown up by an IED explosion, a good thing? How can we possibly dress that up? What we can do, is take the symptoms that have developed since that incident and lessen them. So for the classic example, as I had a soldier coming to see me and yes, he he'd had exactly that experience in Afghanistan, he'd had a friend of his blown up by an IED in front of him. Now, I can't do anything about that. That's in the past, and there's nothing I can do to change that incredibly horrific situation that he found himself in. How is that affecting him now? He can't refuel a car, because the IED was filled with fuel. So it smells, petrol reminds him straightaway, he can't go to a supermarket because it happened in a busy market street. And the second he smells fresh produce or sees people gathering around shopping, it immediately triggers. The worst one, who I know in my humble opinion, as a father myself was he couldn't even stand the sound of his own children playing because there were children playing in the street when it happened. And his last memory before the bang, was the children screaming because they were playing, you know, in a really pleasant screaming way, like they do, a typical sign of a primary school playground. So I can't do anything about the explosion, what I can do is make him feel better about refuelling the car, what I can do is make him feel much stronger, much more resilient about going to a supermarket, what I can do is get them to cope with his children playing. And as a result of that we have, we have, you know. So actually, by getting rid of the, by lessening or even diminishing, disposing of sometimes, the triggers, we don't have the responses that we would get from full blown PTSD. But to keep on talking about the bottom is never ever gonna go away for him.
Andy Workman 38:51
Yeah. So this methodology you're talking about Andy, is this something that you offer to other Hypnotherapists? As a CPD?
Andy Workman 41:57
Yes.
Martin Furber 41:58
Yeah, right, Brillliant!
Andy Workman 41:59
I'm really pleased to say it's a really popular one, because it is not about the making the money from the CPD. Of course it is, it's my time, and we've talked about that. But it's also about the fact that I'm arming people with the tools required by so many people out there, and I can't do it all on my own. And I wouldn't dream of even thinking that I'd be capable or able to do it. So let's get as many people doing that as we possibly can.
Martin Furber 42:23
Absolutely, absolutely. But you're just to be absolutely clear this CPD, you can offer it to anybody who's, you know, had whatever kind of training in hypnotherapy, not necessarily solution focused.
Andy Workman 42:34
Absolutely.
Martin Furber 42:35
And they can find that out from your website, which brilliant, it's up there behind you, and we'll put it in the show notes as well. Something I wanted to talk with you about though, because Denise and I have had similar discussion, just very recently. And you were mentioning it on Facebook, in your group, about getting people back into the classroom for the CPDs.
Andy Workman 42:53
Yes.
Denise Billen-Mejia 42:54
Yes.
Martin Furber 42:57
And your willingness to sort of take a CPD to a different area in the country and what have you. Yeah. How are you finding it now? Because people did, we got through the Covid era, Zoom has been brilliant, for example, for expanding our client base around the world. You know, I've got therapy clients in America, and I've had one in Australia as well. And I've got some on the continent. But yeah, the CPD thing. It's like today I was in the classroom delivering a mental health course. And yeah, that buzz of being there in the live atmosphere. It's good. I think I'm still undecided. It's one or the other. You know what, or you're thoughts?
Denise Billen-Mejia 43:40
It doesn't surely have to be, you either do this, or you do this?
Andy Workman 43:45
No, not at all. But and that's, that's certainly, if ever that's come across as my approach that's totally misunderstood. And I'm delivering my PTSD course, on the first of October online, and it's available to anybody, and that's not a hard sell, but there is so that's just to say that yes, I do do online and of course there's there's value to it. What concerned me is that over the Covid pandemic, everything went online. And to start with people were like, Oh, I'm not doing that, I don't like doing that. And now very many of them, won't do anything but. But the difficulty I have with, that is that actually I feed from the energy of other people. You know, it's here, it's lovely, without being silly and patronising you two have got a lovely energy and you can feel it coming across. You're very easy to speak to. But that's because we're doing it conversationally. I'm not delivering a workshop to you. Now if you are sat there and sitting there that's my Bristolian sorry, if you were sitting there listening to me deliver a talk and chalk presentation. It's very nice of you to be looking at the screen. But whilst I'm concentrating on what I'm delivering Denise suddenly decides, oh, I need some clarification on that. So rather than being polite and go, Hey! Wait a minute, she presses a little button and her hand comes up. I'm in my flow. I've missed that. I've missed that. A quarter of an hour later, you think one, how impolite. And two, I've completely missed the thread now, and I don't even know what the question was. And even if I asked it now, he's moved on so far, what's the point?
Denise Billen-Mejia 45:24
I do think if you're going to have large groups, I mean, if it's two or three, yes, you can, you can have a conversation. But if you're gonna have a group of more than eight people, I think you've got to have a second person monitoring the chat. So that person can interrupt. Absolutely.
Martin Furber 45:41
Obviously, I don't deliver hypnotherapy courses, but delivering the MHFA courses online. I'm blessed that I have somebody else to do the tech for me, because as soon as you start getting on to the breakout rooms and this that and the other, it's fine until something goes wrong.
Andy Workman 45:54
Yeah. I think the biggest concern I have, is what we're missing out on. And that is, with my CPD is online. I will always do a maximum of 50 minutes and then take a 10 minute screen break. Yes, so I encourage people to say get away from the screen. Go make yourself a cup of coffee or something similar. Make sure the kids haven't killed each other whatever it might be you need to do, and then come back.
Martin Furber 46:18
Yeah, I agree. 50 minutes is the optimum time.
Andy Workman 46:21
Yeah, yeah.
Martin Furber 46:22
After that, the mind starts to wander, of course.
Denise Billen-Mejia 46:25
We've know that for years.
Denise Billen-Mejia 46:30
I was gonna say, for me, it's the networking that you can do when you're in physically.
Andy Workman 46:35
It is.
Denise Billen-Mejia 46:36
And you can, I have had some, I've got some very good friends, I have never met. But it's 10 times the work. To, you know, I don't know, I don't know. You said a good thing. But I don't know all the other things you might have said, you know, yeah, you don't have a feel for the person.
Andy Workman 46:54
That's the point. You know, on Saturday, this Saturday, just gone, I travelled three hours to deliver a four hour workshop and travel three hours back again. So I was in the chair with the two week tour and a half times longer than I was actually on my feet. But, when we had our breaks there, as you do, because 50 minutes is your concentration level. We networked, we talked about other things other than the subject we were talking about. And it's silly little things like, you know, you might end up just talking about random stuff. Other good examples I can give you is I keep bees. I'm a beekeeper. And when people start talking about
Denise Billen-Mejia 47:34
I like you more and more every minute.
Andy Workman 47:37
When you start talking about hobbies, and you say, Oh, of course I keep bees a whole conversation takes place, it always does. But then when I call them some months later, and I say to that person Oh, hi, it's Andy. Andy? Yeah, Andy, we met at the PTSD course. I'm the beekeeper. Oh, the beekeeper. That reminds people, we wouldn't have had that conversation, if we were online, so and you're much more, it's not about getting stuff out with people. But I am much more likely to do you a favour if I've met you on those terms. If we've built up some mutual ground outside of our work, I'm much more likely to meet your demands or requests of me than I am to say, Yeah, look, we met at PTSD workshop, you know, I really don't know you well enough. But if we've, more business is done around the water fountain than it ever is in the boardroom, and here it is no different. They're no different.
Martin Furber 48:35
No, I've been delivering courses online, I've really, really enjoyed it. But today, I delivered a course I've been doing, live in the training room today. And the buzz, the energy from it, was a different thing altogether. It was great.
Andy Workman 48:51
Yeah. Yeah. It's little things, you know, from my police experience. I know I keep going back to that, but it was a big chunk of my life, I do actually deliver a body language CPD. And I will only ever do that live for the very reason that
Denise Billen-Mejia 49:07
You need to see the body!
Andy Workman 49:08
There you go. And actually, you know, until you read until you're told you don't realise how much you read somebody else's legs. But the signals you can get from someone's legs, what is probably just about you can see mine, they're not pretty but you know, my legs you can't see whether I'm welcoming, whether I've closed down you can't see whether any of your questions have offended me or caused me concern. I could tell you that if I saw your legs.
Martin Furber 49:09
Yeah, or if they're tapping their foot constantly, disinterested or whatever.
Andy Workman 49:10
There you go. Yeah. The other thing is, is focus. You know, if you're in a room with somebody you focus, whereas you will know, if you've done anything online, and both of you have, you will know that you see that little line of people on the side of your screen as your attendees and they are all muted, but every so often you get that little tick in your eye that lets you see one particular person, and they're doing this, because no matter how much you say to somebody, I'm working, I'm in the room, I'm doing a course I'm going to be four hours, somebody comes in and says, Mom, where's my socks, or the dog's eating the cat again, you know. So when they came to the when they came to the venue for Saturday, I had 13 Lovely therapists, I had their undivided attention, they had my undivided attention, there were no distractions. Oh, my goodness, the buzz at the end was fantastic. And that wasn't all about me or the quality of my training. It was about the fact that we had kindred spirits in a room talking about a mutually interesting subject. And we were getting, I get as much from doing that as the as the lecturer, as hopefully they do as my students. That's not always possible online.
Denise Billen-Mejia 51:00
Well, we are burning through the clock here. When you're talking about working with children, I can't remember if we recorded that, or that was in the previous conversation. So just recap briefly that you talk to children.
Andy Workman 51:15
I talk to children, yes.
Denise Billen-Mejia 51:16
Talking to them in person and talking to them through a box, is a different experience.
Andy Workman 51:21
Of course. Of course. Yes, absolutely. And, you know, it's, I make, you're very lucky that I haven't come in all my corporate kit today, because I usually come very stuffy with a bow tie, because that's my brand. And I made that decision, sometime ago as a ballroom dancer, I'm very comfortable in a ballroom in a bow tie. And it's amazing how as a brand that will get anybody speaking to you. So actually, I always if I go to see teenagers, my bow ties are always Superman, or Batman or spider man. And I know that they've all outgrown that by now. But the amount of really streetwise kids that come up to me and say, likes your tie Sir. Because, as well, you know, it's a talking point. Now, if I turn up here with a bunch of teenagers on the end of a screen, and I've got Batman, and they must, their immediate response must be 'nutter'. He's trying. oh look at him and trying to build bridges. Whereas actually, if I turn up like that, and I start talking to them before the lesson, and I find out things about them.
Denise Billen-Mejia 52:27
And again, it's with the body language, being physically in the room.
Andy Workman 52:30
Yeah, yeah. And it has a whole different effect. You know, it's so nice, where I can be warmer in person, of course, than like, come on a screen because you meet my whole body language, you know, and it's not like a creepy close, but you can stand closer to people, the energy of being in somebody else's personal space, in an appropriate way, is huge. Absolutely huge.
Martin Furber 52:58
Absolutely. In the same way in which if somebody's in our personal space that we don't want in there, we can feel it can't we?
Andy Workman 53:04
There it is. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.
Martin Furber 53:07
You're right! We've burnt through time. We're gonna have to wrap this up. It's been an absolute delight. Fantastic. first guest on our series four. Andy, thank you so much for coming on. If people want to get in touch with you regarding hypnotherapy, or any of the CPDs or absolutely anything at all about you, they can find it all on the website can't they, www.andyworkman.co.uk Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you so much for coming on.
Andy Workman 53:37
It's been my genuine pleasure. Thank you so much for the invitation. You'll be sorry to know that you can invite me back anytime you like.
Denise Billen-Mejia 53:53
We hope you've enjoyed listening. Please remember, this podcast is designed to give you an insight into therapeutic hypnosis, and is for educational purposes only. So remember, consult with your own healthcare professional if you think something you've heard may apply to you or a loved one. If you
Martin Furber 54:09
found this episode useful, you can apply for free continuing professional development or CME credits. Using the link provided in the show notes. Feel free to contact either of us through the links in the show notes. Join us again next week.
